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II. EVIDENCE FOR THE DEFENCE.

HOUSE OF LORDS, OCT. 5.-24.

JAMES LEMANN,

Clerk to Mr Vizard, the Queen's Solicitor, was sent to Baden to solicit the attendance of Baron Dente, Chamberlain to the Grand Duke, as a witness. The Baron at first consulted his minutes and gave his deposition.]

Do you know whether the Grand Duke was then at Baden ?—Yes, he was.

Was the Baron willing to come to this country at the time when you took his deposition on the 20th ?-Yes, he was.

Did he, when you saw him afterwards, state any reason to you why he could not come? Yes, he said he could not come without the consent of the Grand Duke, After he returned from the Grand Duke, at Carlsruhe, did he make any statement to you?—Yes, he did; he told me on the 23d, that he had seen the Grand Duke on that morning, and that he had refused him permission to come.

Did the Chamberlain state any other reason? No. I remember him saying he enjoyed an estate in Hanover under his Majesty, but that should not prevent his coming over, because he was satisfied his Majesty would not think ill of him for coming.

Did you make any other application to him? Yes; I wrote to him requesting he would make a deposition before the local authorities on the spot.

What answer did he return?-He said he could not do so without the consent of the Grand Duke.

COLONEL ANTHONY BULLER St LEGER, [Had been the Queen's Chamberlain for eleven years, from 1809 downwards, but on her Majesty going abroad in 1814, his state of health did not allow him to go farther than Brunswick. On her return, he waited on her and resigned his office, still on account of health.

EARL OF GUILDFORD,

Does your lordship recollect having seen her Majesty the Queen at Naples? -I recollect coming to Naples after the Queen had arrived there.

At what time was that, does your lordship recollect?--I think it was in the beginning of March, 1815.

When your lordship arrived at Naples, who formed the suite of her Majes ty?-I think there were Lady Charlotte Forbes, Sir William Gell, the Hon. Keppell Craven, and Dr Holland. These were all, to the best of my recollection.

Does your lordship recollect a person of the name of Bergami being there?— Yes, I recollect seeing that person.

In what situation was he then, does your lordship recollect?-As far as I understood, I think he was called a courier.

[Lord Guildford dined with the Queen at Naples, with a large party of English and foreigners. He saw her again at Rome, and spent several days in her house at Civita Vecchia. She had then living with her Madame Falconet, wife to an opulent banker at Naples, with her two daughters.

Where did your lordship and Lady C. Lindsay disembark?—At Leghorn.

When did your lordship see her Majesty after that period?-A long interval elapsed before I saw the Queen again. The next time I met her was, I think, in November, 1815, at the Villa d'Este, her house near the Lake of Como.

Was your lordship then accompanied by Lady Charlotte Lindsay?—No, I was not.

Where was Lady Charlotte then ?— She was in England.

Your lordship has said that you then saw the Queen at the Villa d'Este?Yes, I first saw her Majesty on the lake.

Did you dine at the Villa then ?—Yes, I did.

Was Bergami then at her Majesty's table?-He was.

Did your lordship ever before see him sit at table with her Majesty ?-Never, I think.

Did your lordship stay longer than that day at the Villa d'Este? No, I went away the same evening.

Where did your lordship go?-I slept that night in the little town of Como, and went on the next day to Milan.

Did your lordship see the Queen afterwards?-Yes, I saw the Queen on the Saturday or the Sunday following at Milan, where I dined with her by an invitation which I received when I was at the Villa d'Este.

Was it your lordship's intention when you went to the Villa d'Este to have paid a longer visit?-I had no intention of staying longer; I had made no particular arrangement.

From that time have you had any op portunity of seeing the Queen ?-No, I have not.

Cross-examined.-Did it happen to your lordship to see, while at Naples, at Rome, or at Civita Vecchia, whether Bergami waited upon the company at table? I cannot recollect at Naples whether he did or not, but I think he did at Civita Vecchia.

When you visited at the Villa d'Este, what ladies were in attendance ?-There was an Italian lady, whose name I under

stood to be the Countess Oldi.

Had your lordship any opportunity of conversing with that lady?Yes, I conversed with her.

From your lordship's knowledge of the Italian, did she speak what is termed the Patois, or pure Italian ?-I thought she spoke very good Italian, with rather the accent of Lombardy.

Had you ever any conversation with your sister Lady Charlotte Lindsay on the subject of her remaining in attendance on her Royal Highness?-Yes, I recollect to have had some correspondence with her on the subject.

Did you recommend to Lady Charlotte Lindsay the propriety of resigning the situation which she held about the person of her Royal Highness?—I did advise her to resign it.

What were the considerations which induced you to give that advice?

Mr BROUGHAM here desired to remind their Lordships, that this was a question addressed to points on which he had been restrained from entering.

The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with the Learned Counsel, that the examina tion was taking an irregular course, and it might indeed be advisable to expunge the preceding question and answer.

[The Attorney-General here put a number of questions relative to his lordship's servant, evidently pointing to some supposed familiarity between him and the Queen; but Lord G. disowned all recollection on the subject.]

By Lord Ross.-Did you ever see her Royal Highness in company with any other person in a boat on the Lake of Como?-I have certainly seen her in a boat accompanied by another person.

Who was that person?-I have seen her in a boat with Bergami alone.

By Earl GREY.-Did your lordship notice any particular familiarity passing between them, when you thus saw her Royal Highness and Bergami in a boat together?-Certainly, I never observed any conduct on that occasion which ap peared to me to be indecorous.

Your lordship has already stated that the Countess Oldi had a little of the Lombard accent in her pronounciation; was any impression made on your mind with regard to her manners, as well as with regard to her language ?-My chief impression was, that her manners were quite inoffensive.

Were they the manners of an appa❤ rently respectable and modest woman I saw nothing vulgar or immodest in her deportment.

Did you ever remark whether her conversation and deportment were such as indicated a well-bred woman, or a woman of inferior station of society?-I never observed any particular vulgarity.

Did you remark any difference between her manners and the manners of other Italian ladies?-I cannot say that I did; there was no observable or material difference; I should not perhaps call her a person of great refinement, but there was no part of her conduct that was singular or easy to be distinguished from the

greater proportion of Italian gentlewo- No, I do not think that it struck me he

men.

How often did your lordship meet her?-I met her on two occasions, once at the Villa d'Este, and a second time at Milan.

Did you know on either of those occasions that she was the sister of Bergami? -I believe I was not informed of that circumstance on the first occasion, but I certainly was aware of the fact when I saw her at Milan.

By the Earl of LAUDERDALE.-At what part of the table did your lordship sit when you dined with her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales at the Villa d'Este?-On the side opposite to her Royal Highness.

How was your lordship placed in this respect when you dined with her Royal Highness at Milan?-As well as I am able to charge my memory with the circumstance, I sat at her Royal Highness's side. You have already stated that Bergami dined at the table; at what part of it did he take his seat?—He sat, I believe, on the opposite side of the table.

Did your lordship receive any particular attention from her Royal Highness? She always treated me in a very gracious manner.

Was there any thing remarkable in her deportment towards Bergami ?—I remarked no peculiarity.

Where did Bergami's sister, the Countess Oldi, sit on that occasion?-By the side of Bergami.

By the Earl of DARLINGTON.-Did you never observe any singularity in the deportment of her Royal Highness towards Bergami?-I never observed any.

By Lord ELLENBOROUGH.-Did you make any observation on the deportment and manners of Bergami himself?—I remarked that his manners were unobtrusive; I never saw him forward or assuming.

Had you any conversation with Bergami? No particular conversation; he spoke a little: the only time when I was alone with him was in the gallery at Milan, but I do not recollect any particular conversation.

From the opportunity you had of observing Bergami's behaviour, could you form any opinion of his being superior to the situation he had formerly filled?

was.

LORD GLENBERvie,

[Was at Genoa with her Royal Highness, whom Lady Glenbervie agreed to attend till the arrival of Lady Charlotte Campbell, who was daily expected. During this time his lordship dined frequently with the Princess.]

During that time did you see a person of the name of Bergami?-I saw him every day I dined there.

What was the conduct you observed in her Royal Highness towards him during that period?-Bergami waited behind the Princess's chair, in the habit of a courier. I often had the honour to sit

next to her, and all I saw in her was the behaviour of any mistress of rank to a servant. He often helped the Princess and me to wine and other things.

What was the conduct of Bergami towards her Royal Highness?—That of a servant.

Was it respectful, becoming his place, or otherwise?—I did not observe any thing particular; if there had been any thing like disrespect, I should have observed it.

Did you mention the year?-1815.

What company did you meet at her Royal Highness's table during that period?-Mrs Falconet and her two daughters; Mr Hownam, a Lieutenant in the navy; Lady C. Campbell came some days or a week after the Princess; Dr Holland was also there most days, but not all; I likewise saw some Genoese noblemen; one in particular I recollect, Marchese Jean Carlo Negri. There were also some English officers of the navy.

Did you see Lady William Bentinck there?-I saw her at Genoa frequently.

At her Royal Highness's?-I saw her there, but whether I dined with her there I do not recollect.

Do you recollect attending any balls given by her Royal Highness?—The only ball given there I went to.

Did you meet there the principal persons of the place ?--I think a great many of them, the principal ladies and gentlemen of the place.

LADY CHARLOTTE LINDSAY, [Was one of the Princess's ladies of the bedchamber since 1808; but on her going

abroad, accompanied her only to Brunswick, according to previous understanding. She afterwards joined her at Naples in 1815.

How long did you then continue with her?-I joined her Royal Highness in the beginning of March. I remained with her as long as she continued at Naples; I accompanied her to Rome, from thence to Civita Vecchia; I then embarked on board the Clorinde, and quitted the Princess at Leghorn; this was by an arrangement which had been settled before we met.

By whom was her Royal Highness visited while at Naples?-She was visited by all the English of distinction there, and by the Neapolitans of distinction, and other parties.

Be pleased to state the names of some? -Lord and Lady Landaff, Lord and Lady Gage, Lord and Lady Cunningham, Lord and Lady Holland, Lord Clare, Lord G. Somerset, Lord F. Montagu, Lord and Lady Oxford, Sir W. Gell, Mr Davenport, Mr W. Bankes, and there may be others whose names I forget.

Was her Royal Highness visited by Mrs Falconet? She was.

And her daughters ?-And her daugh

ters.

Were you on board the Clorinde with her Royal Highness?—I was.

Do you remember where her Royal Highness slept on board ?-She slept in a part of the Captain's cabin which was divided into two; her Royal Highness slept in one part, and the Captain and his brother in the other.

Did any other person sleep in the division of the cabin where the Princess slept?-Yes, her maid.

Do you recollect any thing arising in consequence of the cabin being divided into two parts?-Nothing particular, except that the Princess expressed some regret that the other part of the cabin had not been appropriated to me instead of the Captain and his brother.

Did it occasion any difference between the Princess and the Captain?-No, I did not observe it.

Do you remember a person of the name of Bergami being in the service of her Royal Highness?-I was often in company with the Queen when Bergami attended.

How did Bergami conduct himself?--In the common way in which a servant would.

How did her Royal Highness conduct herself?-In the manner that a mistress would conduct herself.

Did you ever observe any impropriety of conduct between the Princess and Bergami ?-Never.

When did you quit her Royal Highness's service ?—I sent in my resignation in the year 1817.

What was your reason for resigning? -My brother wrote requesting me to re

turn.

While at Civita Vecchia did you see Bergami ?—I did.

Will you try and recollect with accuracy whether you did not see him at Civita Vecchia walking with the Princess?

The Princess and I frequently walked out together, and Bergami attended; he did not walk with us, but a little way behind us.

Cross-examined.-Will you take upon you to swear that on none of those occasions her Royal Highness walked arm in arm with Bergami-I have no recollection of it.

Will you take upon yourself to swear that she did not?-I can only say that I have no recollection of it; as far as I recollect, Bergami attended at a little distance, unless he was called to be asked a question.

Then I understand you will not swear that the Princess did not on that occasion walk arm in arm with Bergami ?—I certainly do not recollect that she did.

But you will not swear that she did not?-I cannot positively swear, but I never was struck by it.

Why, if such a thing had happened, must it not have struck you?—I suppose it would, and therefore I imagine it did not happen.

You filled the office of lady of the bedchamber?—I did.

That did not necessarily lead you into her Royal Highness's bed-room?-Very frequently it did; frequently she sent for me.

At Naples?-At Naples.

Was the Princess always alone on those occasions?-Not always alone, certainly; sometimes there were persons with her. Do you recollect ever upon these occa

sions secing Bergami in the bed-room ?— I have seen him myself in the bed-room, because we dined in the bed-room. I dined in the bed-room with the Princess and William Austin, and Bergami used to wait upon us as servant.

Had any application been made to you to join her Royal Highness in Germany before you took the resolution of quitting? Yes, there had.

How long before ?--I cannot accurate ly remember how long.

[Bergami attended as courier on the journey from Naples to Rome, and from Rome to Civita Vecchia.]

Does your ladyship recollect whether Bergami accompanied the carriage as courier in that part of the journey?—I believe he did; but I am not so positive in my recollection of his being present on this as on the former part of the journey.

Does your ladyship recollect Bergami riding up to the carriage in the former part of the journey, and addressing her Royal Highness, and saying-" a boire, Medane-I recollect his coming up to ask for something to eat or drink, and her Royal Highness giving him something when called.

Do you recollect whether it was before or after he was called ?—I have no distinct recollection, but I think it was af

ter.

Was it a bottle which her Royal Highness handed to Bergami?-Yes, it was a bottle of wine.

Did he drink on receiving it ?—I think he did.

From the bottle, without a glass?—I think so.

Did he afterwards return the bottle to her Royal Highness?-I cannot positively say; but I fancy he did.

After you had made up your mind to quit the service of her Majesty, did you not state to some person that you found a vast relief to your mind in having come to that resolution?-I have no distinct recollection of having stated that.

Your ladyship says you have no distinct recollection of having made this statement; but do you remember having said anything to the same purpose or effect?-No; I may have said something like it, but I do not think I ever did.

Perhaps I may be able to call the cir cumstance a little more to your ladyship's recollection. After your determination to leave the Princess of Wales, did you not say that that determination was a vast relief to your mind, for that no woman with any regard to her character, would wish to continue with her Royal Highness?—I do not recollect having said any such thing, or used any such words. Does your ladyship recollect having said any thing to that effect ?-No.

Will your ladyship undertake to say that you did not state those words, or make use of words to that effect?-I have no recollection of ever having used any such words.

I understand your ladyship will not undertake to say that you did not make use of these very words?—I say I do not remember having made use of them. I have no recollection of them.

Your ladyship having said that you have no recollection of those words, I wish to ask whether your ladyship will undertake to say that you never did make use of them?-I can only say that I think it extremely improbable I should have used such words, and I do not recollect that I ever did.

I understand that your ladyship will not say that you did not make use of those words?-I can only repeat that I have no recollection of having used them, and I think it very improbable that Í

should.

Will your ladyship undertake to say that you have not made use of words to that effect more than once?—I have no recollection of using them at all.

Your ladyship, however, will not undertake to say that you have not used them more than once?-I can only repeat what I said before, that I have no recollection of using any such words, and that I do not think it probable Į ever did use them.

Did you not say, on quitting the service of the Princess of Wales, that, if it had not been for the desire you had to assist an individual with what you saved from that service, you would have quit ted it long before ?-It is very possible that I may have used these words, but I do not distinctly recollect having used them. I think it, however, possible.

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