citor General's construction of the Act were to prevail, there would be an end at once to all the boasted bulwarks of the British constitution. Nothing, in his opinion, could be more grating to the feelings of the militia, than the circumstance of disembodying fourteen battalions of the regular army, at a time when the militia were continued to be embodied. Why, he would ask, were the regular army to be disembodied, and the national defenders of the country detained from the bosoms of their families, when the oceasion ceased for active operations? It was pretty extraordinary that on this occasion not one of his Majesty's ministers had ventured to raise their voices in support of their own conduct. He could not say that they had sat silent spectators of what was going forward to-night; for they had loudly cheered the arguments of the learned Solicitor General, and therefore they must be considered as espousing his sentiments. He regretted that not a single county member had offered his sentiments on this question; for he should be glad to know what the country gentlemen thought of a measure, the tendency of which must be to injure the future respectability of the militia, as many persons would be deterred from accepting commissions in it, when they found they should be liable to be kept in Ireland, or some other part of the empire remote from their homes, as long after the conclusion of a peace as the crown might think proper to keep them. After the doctrines which, to his utter astonishment, he had that night heard on the subject, he declared that he would press the question to a division, if he were the only person who should go out of the House. The House then divided:- Against it........ .32 97 Majority against the motion...-65 List of the Minority. ARMY ESTIMATES.] The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, and lord Palmerston having moved, "That 135,000l. be granted to his Majesty, for defraying the charge of the Regiments of Militia remaining in an embodied state, from the 25th December 1814 to the 24th of February 1815, being 62 days," The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose to explain the grounds on which this vote was proposed. It had been considered by some gentlemen a singular circumstance, that while part of the militia were kept embodied, the regular army had been reduced. Now, on this head, it was true that 24 second battalions of the regular infantry had been reduced; and the reason was, they were so inefficient in point of numbers, that the whole 24 battalions did not muster more than 8,500 men. Of these, 6,900 had been embodied with the 1st battalion, and the remainder had been discharged, either for infirmity, or because their periods of service had expired. By this measure a considerable reduction of expense had been obtained, attended with little or no reduction of military strength. It was obvious, however, that the war with America, and the keeping up of a considerable body of troops on the continent, required the maintenance of a large military force; and government, on the most mature deliberation, thought that that force would best be rendered disposable by keeping embodied a part of the militia. Mr. Whitbread contended, that the keeping up of a part of the militia was any thing but a deliberate measure on the part of government. The truth was, as facts shewed, that it was a sudden thought on their part; for the Bedfordshire and the Oxfordshire militias were actually arrested when on their march to be disembodied. The whole spirit of the militia system had been broken down (not, indeed, the spirit of the men or the officers) ever since the Volunteering Act of 1799. The Act declared, that a moiety at least of the property of the militia officers should lie in the county to which their regiment belonged; and now he would appeal to any gentleman, whether this qualification was not disregarded. Mr. Bathurst observed, that by the recruiting from the militia alone, this coun try had been enabled to make those exertions of which we all now knew the result. That policy, therefore, could not surely be matter of regret. True it was, that the retaining part of the militia embodied was not a systematic measure on the part of government, but was dictated by the commands for the employment of the regular forces abroad. The grant was then put, and carried. It was next moved, "That 55,000l. be granted to his Majesty, for defraying the charge of Volunteer Corps in Great Britain and Ireland, from the 25th Dec. 1814 to the 24th June 1815." Mr. J. P. Grant really thought there was an understanding on a former night, that this vote should be withdrawn altother; and he was now surprised to hear it brought forward without the smallest preface. Lord Palmerston replied, that there had been no intention to withdraw the vote altogether, but to reconsider it. It had been reconsidered, and a material reduction made. The sum which he had before proposed to take on account was 100,0001; 50,000l. for England, and the same sum for Ireland, including 20,000l. for clothing and allowances. The sum now required for England was 30,000l. and such reductions had been made with respect to the volunteers in Ireland, that the future annual expense, it was estimated, would not exceed 55,000l. Of this sum he proposed now to take 25,000l. which, with the 30,000l. before mentioned on account of England, made up the grant proposed by the resolution before the committee 55,000l. He was surprised that gentlemen should be so anxious to see this force discontinued. There could be no reason for jealousy of those in whose hands arms were placed by this vote. This he conceived to be a species of force the most constitutional in its nature, the cheapest, and the least liable to objection. It put arms into the hands of those least likely to abuse them, and who, on any sudden emergency, were best qualified, from local knowledge and influence, to put down disorder, and to preserve the peace. In this view these corps were much more effective than any regular troops. tration with which this country was ever cursed (a laugh). He would repeat it, their profusion was a curse in the present state of our finances, which was by far the most serious difficulty with which the country had to grapple. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it was true he had suggested reconsideration to his noble friend on a former night, as 100,000l. struck him at the time as a very large sum to vote for the volunteers. It would be improper to put an end to these corps all at once; and, above all, highly objectionable to disband the Irish yeo manry. Mr. Peel spoke strongly of the importance of the yeomanry of Ireland. To rebut the charge of profusion brought by the hon. gentleman, he would simply state to what an extent the Irish government had reduced the estimate for the volunteer service. In 1812 it was 348,000l., in 1814 it was 312,000l., and now it was reduced to 58,000l. Mr. Whitbread admired the singular confession of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It struck the right hon. gentleman, it seemed, when 100,000l. was first proposed, that it was a large sum, and deserved reconsideration. Now, he had always thought that the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer must be previously consulted about every estimate; but it appeared that the Secretary at War had broke loose from all such trammels. Seriously, it was surprising, that in the midst of a profound peace with the continent, it should be thought necessary to keep up an armed police in the country, with bayonets on their muskets and broadswords by their sides. Such things never had been before. These corps had volunteered for the war; that war had ceased; and in England, at least, he saw not the slightest occasion for their further services. Still, however, the questions put the other night on this very topic had saved 45,000/. to the public. Lord Palmerston was sorry he could not congratulate the committee on any such saving, as the present vote was only for half the year. In illustration of the impropriety of disbanding the volunteers all at once, he said he bad that day received Mr. J. P. Grant said, he had expressed a letter from a commandant of volunteer no jealousy of the volunteer corps, but cavalry, stating great reluctance to be disgreat jealousy of the management of the missed on the part of the corps, as they public money, which the present ministers had been induced to suppose would be squandered on all hands with greater and the case, from what had passed the other more lavish profusion than any adminis-night in the House. They begged, rather than be dismissed, to serve without any allowance. After a good deal of discussion, an Amendment was proposed, to leave out the words "Great Britain," and to substitute 25,000l. for 55,000l. The House divided on the question that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the motion. Ayes, 45: Noes, 14: Majority against the Amendment, 31. The original Resolution was then carried. Mr. Baring said, his objection to the vote was from the expense which it entailed on the country. The truth was, we were exhausting ourselves by our expenditure, even in peace. Domestic security at present would be best provided for by economy, which also, when war might again take place, would enable us to make efforts proportioned to the crisis. He was On the motion, "That 6,750l. be grantafraid that the disposition of many mem-ed to his Majesty, for defraying the charge bers of these cavalry corps to retain them of the allowances, compensations, and embodied, was merely that they might emoluments, in the nature of Superannuahave an excuse to get exemptions from tion or retired Allowances, to persons the tax upon horses and other taxes. As belonging to certain public departments to Ireland, having no personal knowledge in Great Britain and Ireland, from the of that country, he would not deny that 25th December 1814, to the 24th June the maintenance of the yeomanry corps 1815;" some question having been raised there might be necessary, though he could on the pension of Mr. Leake, not help looking upon it as the effect of gross mismanagement on the part of the government of that country, which made it necessary to put arms in the hands of the minority, to keep down an oppressed majority, Mr. Fitzgerald was astonished that the hon. gentleman, while he professed his ignorance of Ireland, should yet throw out a charge of gross mismanagement against its government. Sir J. Newport said, it was sufficient to look into the history of Ireland, to be convinced it had been a misgoverned country for many centuries, which circumstance alone rendered the continuance of this force necessary. Mr. J. P. Grant suggested, that the vote for England should be divided from that for Ireland, as many gentlemen who thought the former unnecessary, might vote for the latter. Mr. Whitbread wished to ask why the Secretary at War did not accept the proposal of the gallant volunteers, who had offered to serve for nothing rather than be disbanded? No, he would not do this; he would rather force the acceptance of the money upon them. Lord Palmerston replied, that the offer to which he had alluded was founded merely on a contingency, which it was not the wish of government should take place. It should be recollected, however, that the members of the different corps received no pay; the whole of the grant went to the maintenance of the staff of the corps. Mr. Whitbread thought it would be desirable to do away the exemptions which the yeomanry cavalry at present enjoyed. Mr. Rose expatiated on the zeal, integrity, and ability with which he had invariably discharged the duties of the situations he had held, and stated him to be 70 years of age, having passed, in various capacities, 50 years of his life in the public service. Mr. Tierney proceeding to notice various items in the estimates, observed, that among others, he perceived there was a pension of 5001. for a retired apothecary. Lord Palmerston stated this person to have been twenty years in the service, and to have obtained his pension on the recommendation of the governors of the Royal Military Asylum. Mr. Tierney said, he might not be the better apothecary for his twenty years service. That did not prove him entitled to his pension. Mr. Peel said, it was granted in 1804, and had been voted ever since. Mr. Tierney observed, there was a retired treasurer too, and wished to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Rose) at what age a treasurer ought to retire? Sir J. Newport wished to hear more of the apothecary. Mr. Rose begged the right hon. baronet's pardon for interrupting him, but the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) having addressed himself to him personally, he desired to know to what his question alluded. Mr. Tierney said, there appeared on the estimates a superannuated treasurer. They had there (in the House) a treasurer not superannuated, but who, though advanced in years, had all his treasury faculties about him. He wished to know at I Mr. Rose said, the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had been a treasurer himself, and was therefore as good a judge as he could be. [A laugh.] Mr. Tierney said, he was not a good judge, as he had got no pension, though he had lost his treasurership. Sir J. Newport then inquired whether the retired apothecary who received this pension of 300l. a year, was not the Dr. Trevor whose name was implicated in certain severities charged to have been exercised in Kilmainham gaol? [This introduced a conversation of some length, in which Mr. P. Moore strongly objected to giving such a person any pension. On the other hand, it was declared by Mr. Wellesley Pole, that Dr. Trevor had been acquitted of the charges brought by the prisoners, in a report made by the judges on the subject. He confessed, however, that Trevor was chargeable with some severities, of which he did not approve.] what age, in the opinion of the right hon. | of government, if they chose to exercise gentleman, a treasurer ought to retire; it. He still insisted, that government had and whether he did not think it possible not acted wisely, even in the instance in for one to continue to perform the duties which they had attempted to put the Act of his situation to the last day of his life? in execution. Supposing it had been [A laugh.] necessary to have resorted to it in the county of Tipperary, a magistrate and constables ought to have been chosen who were completely acquainted with the country, and who could, therefore, have more effectually apprehended the disturbers of the public peace. Instead of this, they had robbed the police of Dublin, and employed a number of disbanded serjeants of dragoons, from whom, on account of their want of local knowledge, offenders found it no difficult matter to make their escape. The police of Dublin had been injured, too, for the purpose of bringing those into Tipperary who could have been much more effectually employed in Dublin. If it was necessary to keep up the present establishment of the Dublin police, it must be improper to take away any part of that establishment; and therefore the Dublin police must have been robbed of what was a necessary part of it, without a corresponding advantage in any other quarter. But the measure itself was altogether inefficient for its pur pose. Such was his opinion of the measure, and of the mode in which the government had attempted to carry it into effect. This Bill was brought in for the purpose, and had the appearance, of making it better: but he repeated, that the measure was not at all calculated to restore to a state of peace any country where disturbances had previously existed. He differed from high authority on this subject; but where an assertion rested on more personal authority, he always considered it as of greater or less weight, according to the degree of information which he conceived the assertor to have on the particular subject. He still maintained his opinion, that the measure had not produced the effects which had been ascribed to it; but, as to the amendment of it by the present Bill, he did not think it necessary to give that amendment any opposition. He only maintained generally, that the measure was altogether inefficient, and that the statements which had been given of its beneficial effects were certainly overcharged. The resolution was then agreed to. HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, November 29. IRISH PEACE PRESERVATION BILL.] On the order of the day for the third reading of the Bill to amend an Act passed in the last session of parliament, intituled, "An Act to provide for the better execution of the laws in Ireland, by appointing superintending magistrates and additional constables in counties, in certain cases,' The Earl of Donoughmore said, he did not rise for the purpose of giving any opposition to this Bill; but he must repeat his former statement, that the Act, of which this purported to be an amendment, was altogether an inefficient measure, and that it was not in any degree calculated to restore peace in any country where disturbances existed. It ought to be called, not an Act for the better preservation of the peace in Ireland, but an Act for placing additional patronage in the hands of government. It was not a Bill for putting an end to disturbances, but a Bill of patronage. He did not mean to say, however, that the government had made use of it for that purpose; but that it placed the power to do so in the hands (VOL. XXIX.) The Earl of Liverpool rose merely for the purpose of saying a very few words. After what had passed on a former night, he did not conceive it necessary to enter (2 Q) into any detailed observations as to the arguments brought forward by the noble earl on that occasion. The state of the question appeared to be this: the noble earl did not object to the present Bill, which was a mere amendment, or corollary arising out of the Act of last session, called the Irish Peace Preservation Act. The noble earl's object appeared to be, to point out the inefficiency of the measure in general. Now, upon that point he should only say, that the Act had been passed with almost as much unanimity as could be expected upon any measure of the kind. Much serious objection had been felt and urged, both in this and the other House of Parliament, to the Act which was called the Irish Insurrection Act; because wherever the necessity of putting that Act in force arose, the constitution was in reality suspended for a time, in the quarter where it was carried into operation. But the Irish Peace Preservation Act had, on the contrary, passed with very general approbation. It had been supported by many who were adverse to the other measure, and supported, as he conceived, on this principle, that, even when carried into effect, it did not suspend the ordinary constitution and laws, but only afforded an additional stimulus for carrying the existing laws into more active operation. Such had been the idea entertained of that Act; and it certainly had been maintained by persons whose authority ought to have weight on the subject, that it had been attended with very beneficial consequences, both directly where it had been carried into operation, and indirectly, by producing an increase of vigilance and activity in other quarters, to prevent the necessity of putting the Act in execution in these places. But this, it was said, was a measure merely of patronage. On that point he should only say, that patronage certainly was not the motive for passing the Act; and even the noble earl himself had admitted that the government had not made use of it for any such purpose. It was, indeed, difficult to conceive how any such measure, of which the management must be left with government, could be so contrived as not to place some additional patronage in the power of government. But the measure, it was evident, had not been used for any such purpose; and it had not been adopted with any view to increase the government patronage. It had at the time of passing been very generally regarded as a sound and proper measure, and therefore, even supposing the noble earl to be perfectly well founded in his statements, supposing all his observations to be perfectly correct and just, and that he was borne out in every one of them, still he should say, that as the measure had been originally so generally conceived to be sound and proper, they had not sufficient experience with regard to its effects, to render it expedient to repeal it. Even granting the noble earl all that he contended for, still they ought to wait some time further before they proceeded to repeal such a measure, passed upon due and mature deliberation, and very generally admitted at the time to be a wise and proper one. He had said thus much, merely to impress on the minds of their lordships the expediency of at least postponing any decided opinion upon its efficiency or inefficiency till they had some further experience respecting it. As to the particular Bill now before the House, he did not understand the noble earl to have objected to it, and therefore it was unnecessary to go further than to throw out these few observations with regard to the general measure which it was the object of the present Bill to improve. The Earl of Donoughmore said, he certainly never had it in contemplation to propose a repeal of the Act in the present session. The discussion had originated from a statement in another place from a high authority, from which it appeared that government had taken much greater credit to itself for the efficiency of that measure, than, in his apprehension, it deserved. He had consequently been induced to lay before their lordships his own view of the subject, and to prevent the public from placing too much reliance upon a statement, which, in his opinion, was overcharged. He had succeeded in his object, for he had proved by the admission of the Secretary of State for the home department, that the statement, as it had met the public eye, was overcharged: but he had never intended to propose a repeal of the measure in the present session. The Bill was then read a third time, and passed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. PAPERS RELATING TO SPANISH SUBJECTS SENT FROM GIBRALTAR TO CADIZ.] The |