had lately received not only an accession of vivacity, but of prudence also; and it appeared that in future it was proposed to cloak their ignorance under the shelter of discretion. Mr. Wellesley Pole said, that in some cases, at least, it was justifiable not to answer questions. We will not,' added the right hon. gentleman, answer questions, where we cannot do so without inconvenience to the public service.' Mr. Whitbread said, he should know how to distinguish between the will' and the can' of the right hon. gentleman. The resolution was then agreed to. SIR JAMES DUFF.] Mr. Whitbread was desirous of knowing when the right hon. gentleman proposed to lay before the House the papers relative to the Spaniards arrested at Gibraltar, and also whether any steps had yet been taken towards an inquiry into the conduct of sir James Duff? The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that he should present the papers alluded to, when next he should have the honour of appearing in the House. As to the alleged conduct of sir James Duff, he had not yet any information to furnish. Mr. Whitbread said, he did not ask him for information, but whether an inquiry had yet been instituted; and upon this point he hoped that no time would be lost. Mr. Tierney expressed a hope that the account respecting the droits of Admiralty would be printed before the next meeting of parliament, and took occasion to ask from what fund the sum had been advanced to the king of France before his departure from this country, to defray the expenses of his journey? The Chancellor of the Exchequer apprehended, that the advance was made from the same source as that which supplied other public purposes. Mr. Tierney observed, that this advance was considerable; and it was to be hoped that it would be repaid, as the French government made such a flourish about the discharge of the king's debts. Mr. Ponsonby inquired from what particular fund this advance was defrayed? The Chancellor of the Exchequer an swered, from the vote of credit. Sir J. Newport observed, that this advance was made eight weeks before the vote of credit was granted. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that gentlemen acquainted with public business must be aware, that an advance was often made from any fund that could afford it, to answer a particular public purpose, and that such advance was afterwards made good from the vote of credit. HOUSE OF LORDS. STATE OF AFFAIRS ON THE CONTINENT.] On the third reading of the Exchequer bills Bill, The Earl of Donoughmore said, that though he should permit the Money Bills to pass through the House without observation, he desired that this conduct might not be construed into any approbation, on his part, of the purposes for which these monies had been, or were intended to be applied. That his sentisufficiently appear from the motion of ments were very different, indeed, would which he was then about to give their that a subject of such infinite importance lordships notice. He deeply lamented should have fallen into such unequal hands as his, and he had therefore refrained from taking the subject up till the very last moment, in the hope that it might have had the advantage of that have derived additional weight. The talent and authority, from which it would noble earl (of Liverpool) having, however, given him reason to understand, that Thursday next was likely to be the last sitting day of the House before the recess, no alternative was left him but to undertake that duty himself, for the discharge of which he thought the circumstances under which we were placed imperatively possible day, for the purpose of giving to called. Selecting, therefore, the latest every the great and pressing importance of the noble lord who might feel with him his place at the discussion of it, he acsubject, a full opportunity to appear in should on Thursday next call their lordcordingly should give notice, that he ships attention to the necessity of some prompt proceeding on the part of that House, declaratory of their lordships just and aggrandizement, which appeared to abhorrence of that system of spoliation form almost the avowed basis of all the pending negociations at Vienna. He moved that the Lords be summoned for that day, which was ordered. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, Nov. 28, 1814, HACKNEY COACHES BILL.] Mr. Lush ington having moved the order of the day, for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, upon the Bill to repeal certain parts of an Act of the 54th of his present Majesty, for the better regulation of the drivers of licensed hackney coaches, for explaining and amending an Act of the 48th year of his present Majesty, relating to hackney coaches, and for authorizing the licensing of a limited number of hackney chariots," General Thornton begged permission to make a few observations as his reason for opposing the further progress of the Bill, at present at least, in the form in which it now stood. His objection to the Bill was, that it repealed the clause respecting the delivery of the tickets by the coach man, without making any provision in its stead. Now, he was convinced that the clause, though proved to be inefficient, had nevertheless been productive of very beneficial effects to the public. It had caused the coachmen to be frequently summoned; and though they could not be convicted on that clause, they had been convicted on the provisions of other acts of parliament, and fined for their abusive language; which had produced a very great good to the public, by having rendered these men a great deal more civil than they had ever been known to be heretofore. To oppose the present motion might be vain; but as the hon. member had intimated his intention to propose other measures connected with the regula- | tion of hackney coaches after the recess, he would suggest some alterations. He would submit the propriety of requiring the number to be painted inside the coach as well as on the outside. Persons wanting coaches were frequently obliged to get into them in the dark, and they could not in such cases see the numbers; but if they were placed in a conspicuous place inside, there would be frequent opportunities in passing lamps to see the numbers. He would also suggest, that it should be required of coachmen to have a card of fares fixed inside the coach; and if the ticket system should not be abolished, that the size of those for 1s. and those for Is. 6d. should be different. He could not but hope that the plan of giving tickets would yet be continued, if the Bill was not precipitated through the House; at all events, he trusted that it would not be persevered in till the hon. member should have laid before the House the regulations which he intended to propose for the future management of hackney coaches, and that after the recess there might be a committee of inquiry on the subject. The Ticket Act had not only done some good in checking the abuse and system of extortion that once prevailed to such a degree, that decent people, ladies in particular, were almost debarred the comfort of a hackney coach, if they chanced to be unprotected; but it had also procured the town the benefit at last of arousing the commissioners, as might be seen by their circular, which had recently appeared in the newspapers. They were now really beginning to exert themselves; why they had not done it before, heaven only knew, as they had at least had the power of being useful. Mr. Lushington had no particular desire to press this Bill at the present time, as it was his intention to submit some resolutions, connected with this subject, after the recess; and he would therefore move that the Bill be committed on Friday, the 10th of February.-Ordered. SICILY COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY NAPLES - SAXONY-POLAND.] On the report of the Committee of Supply being brought up, Mr. Whitbread said, that he wished to be informed by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether there was any truth in the assertion made by the king of Sicily in his speech to his parliament, that England had granted two loans to him? This was another proof, that all information upon important topics was to be derived by parliament through any but the proper channel, the ministers of the crown. If the account were true, it ought to have been mentioned before the subsidy to Sicily was voted. The Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted that it was perfectly true, that at a time when the Sicilian government was extremely pressed for money, this country, through its minister lord William Bentinck, had acceded to a grant of two small advances, the whole amount of which was about 150,000l. This loan had taken place in the year 1812, and in the year following a part of it had been discharged. It was, in truth, only an anticipation of the subsidy due from this government, and annually authorized by parliament, and from which the amount of the loans would be deducted. He said, he would take that opportunity of correcting a misrepresentation which had gone abroad re specting his answer to a question put to him on a former evening. He had been erroneously represented as having said, from authority, that this government had guaranteed the crown of Naples to Murat: the truth was, that he put it hypothetically, supposing the statement made by the hon. gentleman to be true. It had been also represented that he had asserted, that lord William Bentinck had disavowed the intentions of the Sicilian government, with regard to the attack upon Naples. Without either affirming or denying the fact, all he had done was to endeavour to shew, whatever the truth might be, that what had been done was not inconsistent with the stipulations of this country with the government of Naples; and that our minister had interfered as early as possible to prevent any hostile proceedings. he was at peace with all the world; that his ports were open to the shipping of all nations, even to that of Sicily; and yet Ferdinand was carrying on hostilities under the covert protection of this country. One of the other questions upon which he entreated information, regarded a subject already much discussed: he wished to know whether there was any truth in the further information that had reached this country, respecting the unfortunate country, whose fate ministers had declared was negociating, and not negociated, Saxony. The public accounts represented the fate of Saxony as irrevocably fixed. Was it or was it not the fact? Government could not now pretend that they were ignorant, after the publication of prince Repnin's proclamation, after what was reported to have been said by the emperor Alexander, and after the absolute delivery of the possession of the kingdom to Prussia. It was impossible to contend for an instant that this act of robbery had not been perpetrated in the very spirit of Buonaparté, but without his master-hand in the execution. It was the duty of the House to reflect upon the consequences of such a proceeding. If such a system was resolved upon a system directly tending to anarchy, trouble, and confusion, who could be bold enough to think of the revolutions and devastations likely to take place, without horror? This country looked for a speedy diminution of taxes; but if the system of spoliation at present before our view were persisted in, how could she expect to have her burthens diminished. Let nobody, then, talk of the property tax ceasing in the course of the present year: while such a system continues, it could never cease. The foreign papers represented Mr. Whitbread observed, that as the right hon. gentleman had not to-night deemed it inexpedient and inconsistent with his public duty to answer one question, he might probably have the good fortune to force from him a reply to one or two others. It was really very difficult to deal with a gentleman who was so careful not to deal in matters of fact, but to put every thing hypothetically: but he would repeat what he had asserted on a former night, relative to the engagement entered into by this government with the king of Naples, who was now no longer dignified by titles of royalty, but was called by the right hon. gentleman simply, plain Murat, as if in anticipation of his destruction. Ferdinand, in the address to his parliament, informs them of the great benefits his kingdom was to derive from England, which could be construed into nothing less than that this government had agreed to place him upon the throne of Naples. Mr. Whit-that count Metternich was presiding at the bread said, he hoped that such was not the fact, since it would be an engagement wholly incompatible with the execution of the treaty for which the faith and honour of the country was pledged to Joachim Murat, king of Naples. It now appeared, with regard to Sicily, that the House of Commons had been voting a subsidy, which was to repay to ourselves a loan we had made. Why had not the right hon. gentleman stated the fact at once to the House, in the committee of supply? The whole seemed to him a mere pretence, a mere juggle on the part of ministers. However ignorant the other side of the House might be, or pretend to be, they must know that the king of Naples had declared that head of the cabinet of kings and ministers, who were spending their time in a most pleasant and sociable manner at Vienna. Here, probably, was the origin of the proceedings with regard to Saxony. Count Metternich, a very communicative, lively man, had doubtless at some one of the dinners been telling a few of the entertaining stories, with illustrations, of the manner in which he and Buonaparté used to carve up the continent:-that Buonaparté used to divide this kingdom in this way, and that kingdom in that way, and that he made no bones of freely disposing of them to the powers who surrounded him. From these lessons the sovereigns and their ambassadors seemed to have ground of inconvenience to the public service, when it had afterwards turned out that he was in perfect ignorance upon the point. The rumours were, that the emperor Alexander had strenuously contended for the independence of Poland, and that he had been opposed in his bene learnt much of the design, but little of the execution, which was generally accomplished by a few master-strokes, to which they appeared incompetent. It was not, however, to be conceived, that the ambassador of Great Britain would, without objection or protest, not only permit these infractions of right, but become an acced-volent views by the British minister. ing party, and that, too, without deigning to give the slightest information to the gentlemen on the bench opposite, who were cutting such a deplorable figure [a laugh]. It was lamentable to reflect how the money and the character of the nation had been squandered. What was to be the issue after the period of gestation should be passed, and the right hon. gentleman would be allowed to produce the offspring of the labours of the noble lord? But it was very easy for the right hon. gentleman to rid himself of all interrogators for the present. The House, it seemed, was to be adjourned for a long period; and at the re-assembling of parliament, after every thing had been fixed, and all the spoliations had been completed, then was the time to put questions, and then they were told they would be answered. Mr. Whitbread solemnly protested against such a proceeding-he protested against the robbery of Saxony, and lamented that the House had been so imprudent as to grant supplies that would be devoted to such a purpose. Was the conduct now adopted at Vienna consistent with the declaration of the allies before they thought success as near as they found it? Did they not rest their hope, their every hope, upon acting on principles directly in opposition to the system of him whom they called the tyrant of the continent? And yet, the very moment they got power into their own hands, they retraced his steps, and in such a clumsy manner as to produce a twofold injury. [Hear, hear!] Surely it was enough to see tyranny supplying the place of gratitude in Spain, without finding that it had spread to the continent, and that Lecocq and Thielman had fallen victims to it! Nothing official had been inserted in the foreign journals upon this grand question, and nothing had been publicly done; but the people were amused by disputes between the minister of the king of Wurtemberg and the minister of the new king of Hanover, upon a point of etiquette who should take precedence, like the ceremonious ladies of two newly-baked baronets at a country ball. Such were the ridiculous antics played by the ambassadors at Vienna, instead of proceeding to discharge the important duties with which they were entrusted. Mr. Whitbread hoped to receive an answer upon these points, and if the Chancellor of the Exchequer did so far condescend, it would be necessary for him to condescend still further, and to shew why he had not answered them before. We now lived in an age when free nations were not to be sold and transferred like beasts of burthen; and if any attempt of the kind was made, the result would be a bloody and revengeful war. He repeated, that it was folly to talk of repealing the property tax; it could never be taken off, if those partitions were suffered to take place. The hon. gentleman concluded by again adverting to the affairs of Poland, and by stating, that in every step and in every stage he would resist the supply, until some suitable developement of its application was satisfactorily laid before the House. [Hear, hear!] The Chancellor of the Exchequer. In observing upon what has fallen from the hon. member, I shall take the liberty of entering a little into the subjects to which he has adverted. Whatever accusations he may think proper to bring against me, I certainly do not intend to charge him with being deficient in his duty; if enterHe begged to remind the right hon.ing his protest against the proceedings of gentleman of the rumours that were afloat government, whatever they may be, conupon another subject of equal magnitude, stitute a part of that duty. I feel no obupon which he also requested that hejection to give the hon. gentleman infor would put off his mysterious air of secrecy,mation upon one or two points to which and give parliament a little intelligence, if, indeed, he could communicate any thing; for it had happened that he had refused to reply to a question, on the he has referred. First, with regard to Saxony; I believe that the fate of that kingdom has not, and cannot have yet been decided; because the Congress by which the decision is to be made, has not yet met. [Hear!] I cannot, therefore, believe that the fate of Saxony is yet fixed; much less do I believe that any British minister would be a party to any such decision as is supposed to have been made [Hear, hear! from all parts of the House]. As little do I believe (and the hon. gentleman will have reason on some future day to recollect my assertion), that any British minister will be a party to the subjugation of Poland. On these points I hope the hon. member is now satisfied; and having replied to his questions, it will be unnecessary for me to say any thing further. Mr. Whitbread. I beg to be allowed to say a word or two in explanation. I am not at all deranged by the little sarcasm of the right hon. gentleman; for all knowledge is comparative; and if I know little upon these subjects, it is plain that the Chancellor of the Exchequer knows less, for undoubtedly I have supplied the greater part of his information. My principal object in rising is, that I may distinctly understand what he has said. He states, that he does not believe that the fate of Saxony is decided; [Hear! from Mr. Vansittart] and he does not believe it possible that any British minister should have been a party to the surrender of Saxony to Prussia, as is stated by the documents that have been published. [Hear, hear!] The right hon. gentleman believes, that I shall have reason to remember what I have said, upon some future day. I suppose he means, that on obtaining assistance after the recess, he intends to inflict upon me a castigation. I hope he will have an opportunity of so doing, by shewing that a British minister has not been a party to the cession of Saxony to a foreign power. As to Poland, the right hon. gentleman believes that lord Castle reagh never acquiesced in the subjugation of that country, and does not think it possible that a British minister would acquiesce in such a proceeding. What, then, is the extraordinary situation of ministers? Their leader hopes, and believes, and expects every thing-he has no certain intelligence, and yet the House cannot fail to know what information he might have possessed and communicated. It is for the House to say, whether it is satisfied with these ambiguous hypotheses in which he always speaks: but if what has been stated were not true, could he not disprove it from the very tenor of lord Castlereagh's letters? Surely he could collect whether it were true or false. I ask the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and request that he will give me an answer-Has he any information on which he can contradict what I have stated with regard to Poland, and what I hope and believe is true? The Chancellor of the Exchequer. I hope the hon. gentleman will not misapprehend me; though I fear, from what he has thrown out, that I did not make myself understood. What I said was, that I believed the fate of Saxony was not, and could not be decided; because, by the last accounts, the Congress had not yet met, whose duty it was to decide. Therefore I presume that any occupation of Saxony that has taken place, can only be provisional merely a military occupation of the country, such as was before maintained by the Russians. This was all I meant to state with regard to Saxony; and the British minister, therefore, was not a party to the transaction. As to Poland, what I said was, that I did not believe it would be found that a British minister had been the author of the subjugation of that country. [Hear, bear!] Mr. Tierney. Perhaps, Sir, I may come in for my share of the threatened castigation on the fatal day, but I wish distinctly to understand whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer means to deny that military possession has been taken of Saxony, and that it has been given up to the dominion of Prussia? Whether he means to deny the proclamation of prince Repnin, which states that Saxony, as a kingdom, shall hereafter be subject to the dominion of the king of Prussia? If he means to deny these facts, I shall be glad to know it. The right hon. gentleman says, he cannot believe that any English minister would be a party to such an affair: it is, therefore, material that we should know in what situation our ambassador stands. He is to be a member of that Congress which is to decide this question; but is not the decision rendered a mere mockery, when the subject is already settled by the occupation of the country by a large mi litary force? What, then, is now to be decided by the Congress?-Really nothing. After the recess, no doubt, we shall see the right hon. gentleman coming down to the House to say that he is very sorry, but lord Castlereagh could do nothing against an army already in posses |