materially different from his own. But, if the object of the war on our part came to be-not the securing the allegiance and services of our own subjects--not the defence of our maritime rights-not any great principle which this country could not with safety give up; but an accession of territory, a new boundary line, the entire possession of the navigation of the lakes, and especially the preventing the Americans from acquiring any accession of territory from the Indians within the Mississippi, the line marked by a former treaty;-if the object of the war was thus changed, he desired to be considered as no supporter of these new principles upon which the contest was conducted. It was true, if the noble earl said that these were but partial documents, that they disclosed only part of the case, he could not argue upon these documents. But still, if this publication by America gave an erroneous view of the subject, it was of very great importance that the matter should be set on its right footing; and on this ground it was, that he was desirous that the noble earl, either by communication to parliament, which was the most regular mode, or in some other way, should give America and Europe to understand, that the pretensions of the British government had been erroneously stated on the part of the American government. The Earl of Liverpool declared, that he British government is prepared to propose a boundary; but as this might be construed as an intention to extend their possessions to the southward of the lakes, which is by no means the object they have in view, they are disposed to leave the territorial limits undisturbed, and as incident to them, the free commercial navigation of the lakes; provided that the American government will stipulate not to maintain, or construct any fortifications apon, or within a limited distance of the shores; or maintain, or construct any armed vessels upon the lakes in question, or in the rivers which empty themselves into the same. If this can be adjusted, there will then remain for discussion the arrangement of the north-western boundary between lake Superior and the Mississippi, the free navigation of that river, and such a vacation of the line of frontier as may secure a direct communication between Quebec and Halifax. "The undersigned trust that the full was as sensible as the noble marquis could possibly be, that at the proper time all the circumstances mentioned by the noble marquis ought to be fully explained. The question was, was that the time? All that he could then say was to repeat his former assertion, that the British government did not see any thing in the unjustifiable step which had been taken by America to induce them to depart from the usage which had prevailed at all times with nations, not to publish or explain the circumstances of any negociation while that negociation was in progress and not brought to any issue. Under this impression, it was impossible for him to reply at present to the points alluded to by the noble marquis; but at the proper time he pledged himself fully to explain his conduct and that of his Majesty's government, to parliament, to Europe, and to the world. There was one thing which he wished particularly to impress on their lordships' minds, namely, that, whatever might appear on the face of the papers which had been alluded to, the negociation had not closed, it had never intermitted, and was still proceeding; notwithstanding the pernicious effects which might arise from the disclosures that had been so unwarrantably made. The Earl of Donoughmore was ready to admit, that if the statement in the American papers had proceeded from any un statement which they have made of the views and objects of the British government, in requiring the pacification of the Indian nations and a permanent limit to their territories, will enable the American plenipotentiaries to conclude a provisional article upon the basis above stated. Should they feel it necessary to refer to the government of the United States for further instructions, the undersigned feel it incumbent upon them to acquaint the American plenipotentiaries, that the government cannot be precluded by any thing that has passed, from varying the terms now proposed, in such a manner as the state of war, at the time of resuming the conferences, may, in their judgment, render advisable.-The undersigned avail themselves of this occasion to renew to the plenipotentiaries of the United States, the assurance of their high consideration. "HENRY GOULBURN. which professed (and he trusted candidly) an utter detestation of that traffic. For himself, he did not attach the slightest credit to the accusation; but in his opinion, when such a declaration was made officially by any government, it merited an explicit refutation. [386 authorized individual, the argument of the charge made by America. The noble noble earl would be sufficiently satisfac-earl could not be ignorant that it had been tory. But that was not the case. Here most distinctly charged against the Briwere two governments in treaty with each tish in America, that in the southern other; one of which having published an states our naval and military commanders official statement said to be partial, the had induced the slaves to desert from the other was called upon to furnish one that American service, and had afterwards conwas correct. What he wished the noble veyed them to the West Indies, and sold earl to do, was to follow the example of them there. These allegations were, it the American government; and as that was said, accompanied by documentary government had sent forth an account proof, although that proof had not been calculated to influence America and Eu- published. A charge of greater infamy rope in their favour, the noble lord ap- was never made against a civilized gopeared to him bound, in duty to the Bri-vernment, and particularly a government tish government, to publish such a statement, if it was in his power to do so, as would do away the mischievous effects of that of the enemy. Never had a question been brought before their lordships calculated to excite greater astonishment, both on this and on the other side of the Atlantic. The public had conceived, that The Earl of Liverpool felt highly obliged we were carrying on the war for that vital to the noble marquis for giving him the principle of our existence-the right of opportunity of declaring that he had claiming the service of our own citizens. never even heard of such an occurrence, All was, however, changed. None of the until he saw it imputed to us in the Ameleading points, formerly considered so im-rican papers. Not only had the British portant, were strongly touched; they government no knowledge of any such were only just mentioned; while those in-proceeding, but he was firmly convinced sisted upon were entirely new-our own aggrandizement, an alteration of the boundary, the abandonment of the lakes by the American navy, or, in other words, the destruction of the American naval frontier all these were new grounds for negociation, of which the public had not hitherto been informed. Under these circumstances, was it not the bounden duty of his Majesty's ministers to acknowledge that there had been a change of demands; and to state, if that was the fact, that the change had become necessary, from what had passed in other parts of the world? But this the noble earl refused to do. Allowing that the publication by the American government was calculated to be pernicious, the noble earl determined to wait until the mischief was done, The Earl of Liverpool reminded their before he gave the explanation by which lordships, that on cause days, viz. Monalone it could be prevented. Their lord-days, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ships were to be kept in ignorance of the proceedings of government, until the period when the only power left to them would be that of expressing their disapprobation. The Marquis of Lansdowne said, he did not rise for the purpose of prolonging the conversation, but in order to give the noble earl an opportunity of disclaiming, as he was sure he would be able to do, a (VOL. XXIX.) that the statement of its having taken place was entirely void of foundation. An immediate inquiry should, however, be made into the circumstances which could possibly have given rise to such an allegation; and if it should appear (which he was persuaded it would not) that there was the slightest ground whatever for an accusation of so criminal a nature, measures would immediately be adopted to bring the offenders to justice. After a few words in explanation between their lordships, on some of the foregoing points, a conversation took place, principally between the earls of Liverpool and Donoughmore, relative to the adjournment of the House on those days for which no important business stood. House met; and his noble and learned friend on the woolsack sat, in reference to the judicial business, from ten till four o'clock. After which period, when no important business stood, it was often found difficult to keep a House till five o'clock; therefore, in such cases, to remain till that hour, would be an unnecessary prolongation of the noble and learned lord's trouble; and he believed, that, in general, it (2 C) would not be unsatisfactory to their lord-| ships, if it were understood that on those days an adjournment should take place at four o'clock. The Earl of Donoughmore deprecated the idea, that even on such days there should be no House in that interval. He should think it was the duty of their lordships, particularly of the members of his Majesty's government, to attend regularly, and to preclude any complaints of a House not being kept. The Lord Chancellor said a few words on the occasion, observing, that the remark of the difficulty of keeping a House together (which it did not depend upon him to do), did not apply to cause days alone, but to other days in the week, and seemed to deprecate the want of a better attendance. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, November 21. MILITIA.] Sir Samuel Romilly gave notice, that on Monday next he would call the attention of the House to the continuance of the embodying of the militia after the termination of the war. Preparatory to this consideration, he would beg leave to move for returns of such militia regiments of the united kingdom as had been disembodied since last May; the times when, and the places where, they had been disembodied; and the numbers of those who remained embodied since that time also of such regular regiments as were disbanded since May; the times when, where, &c.; with the amount of their present establishment.-The returns were ordered accordingly. IRISH SUPERINTENDING MAGISTRATES BILL.] Mr. Peel moved the second reading of the Bill to amend an Act passed in the last session of parliament, intituled, "An Act to provide for the better execution of the laws in Ireland, by appointing superintending magistrates and additional constables in counties, in certain cases." Mr. J. P. Grant said, he could not refrain from adverting to this subject, although a better opportunity would perhaps be afforded him for entering into its merits, in the event of his bringing forward the measure of which he gave notice at the close of last session, for an inquiry into the state of Ireland. It had been said, as he understood, by the right hon. gentleman when he introduced this Bill a few days ago, that he congratulated the House upon the efficacy and success which had attended the operation of the Bill passed last session, for the internal tranquillity of Ireland; and that the government of Ireland had not found it necessary to call into action one of them (the Insurrection Act) at all; and the other (the Preservation of the Peace Bill) was only acted upon in one district, that of Middlethird. Now, for his own part, he was not convinced, by the course of reasoning which had been adopted by the right hon. gentleman opposite, nor could he bring himself to think, that the necessity for a measure was proved by its never having been put in force, or its utility established, by its never being called for. The hon. and learned gentleman proceeded to avow himself to be one of those who still remained unconvinced of the necessity of those coercive measures towards Ireland; indeed, he confessed that he was more strongly impressed than before with the ill effect of the bills which were enacted last session; and under this impression he would, at no distant period, propose an inquiry into the state of Ireland, provided no more competent and better informed person expressed himself prepared to undertake that task. Mr. Peel did not think it fair for the hon. and learned gentleman to confound the two Bills under one head. He (Mr. Peel) had certainly stated on a former night, that the most beneficial consequences had flowed to the country from the enactment of the two Bills; but he could not concur with the hon. and learned gentleman, that the non-enforcement of one of them formed any reason to suppose that its enactment had been unnecessary. It was in the recollection of the House, that when he had moved for the introduction of those Acts, he had distinctly expressed his fervent hope that the Irish government would not be compelled, by the necessity of the case, to resort to their enforcement. He felt pleasure in stating, those hopes had been realized; and the Peace Preservation Bill had only been acted upon in the Barony of Middlethird, and then after a call for that purpose of the magistrates and gentry of that county, in a meeting of which lord Llandaff was chairman. He had not stated, however, that complete tranquillity prevailed in Ireland, and from thence argued the justification of the Bills; and whenever the hon. and learned gen rage in those parts where crime had usually predominated. tleman thought proper to introduce his motion, he should be prepared to prove their necessity when called for, and their efficacy in restraining violence and out The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. TAXES.] Mr. Bennett, from the Exchequer, presented at the bar, the following Accounts: An ACCOUNT of the INCOME of, and CHARGE upon, the CONSOLIDATED FUND;-for the Quarters ending the 5th of July and 10th of October, 1814. |