cantile speculation, and to raise the price lated that such resumption would take of all commodities in this country. A place at the period mentioned in the Bill. right hon. gentleman, whom he was glad before the House. If the Bank were likely now to see on the Treasury-bench (Mr. to resume its cash payments, even at the Huskisson), had calculated the rise of prices period alluded to, namely, in July 1816, to be 15 per cent., and had stated it to he was ready to state that he, for one, have been, at the time of this calculation, should rest satisfied. But he could not still increasing. This, then, was a heavier entertain such a hope: he felt convinced, tax than that upon property. The latter that he should never live to see that event; produced 14 millions; the former cost the on the contrary, he fully believed, that as Country 20 millions, and he feared was long as the Chancellor of the Exchequer likely to do so to the end of time. We and the Bank could contrive to agree, the appeared to him to be in a constant state restriction was likely to continue. The of vacillation between the buoyancy of House, then, he thought, was bound to our exports, and the depression of our do- inquire into the subject, in order to ascer mestic currency. If a person were to go tain how the affairs of the Bank stood, to Paris, and carry with him, as he pro- and when the public could look for the bably would, a few light guineas, he gratification of their wishes, in the restomight procure for each 26 livres 2 sous, ration of a sound currency for the paywhich would be an exchange in his favour.ment of their just claims. The Bank (diLet him buy a bill with his Bank notes, rectors always stated, that they were de and he would get but 22 livres for his sirous to resume their cash payments-that pound, an exchange considerably against they were anxious, truly, for the removal him. Such was the difference between of the restriction; but yet he must say, London and Paris in the real and the that he never saw a body of men so panominal exchange, or between French tient under restriction as those hon. genand English gold on the one hand, and tlemen appeared to be, [a laugh!]; for French gold and English paper on the they uniformly opposed every proposition other. The hon. member lamented the of inquiry, and every measure taken in minister's dependence upon the Bank; order to remove that restriction. Such which dependence could not be denied, opposition, then, seemed to cast some susfor according to the words of the wisest picion upon the sincerity of these gentleman, "the borrower is always the slave men. The right hon. gentleman reviewed of the lender." This dependence he also the history of the Bank since the comdeprecated the more, because he con-mencement of the restriction in 1797, and ceived it seriously prejudicial to the public service. He would vote for the appointment of the committee, in order to ascertain the conditions upon which the Bank directors were willing to resume their payments in cash, as well as upon what grounds the present measure was thought necessary. An explanation of these points was required to satisfy the public. thence concluded that the Bank directors were not willing to resume cash payments, because the restriction was found more conducive to their interests. But from the present system of our finances, and the connexion between the Bank and the Treasury, he thought it impossible for the Bank to make its cash payments for a very considerable period, especially after the Mr. Tierney began by observing, that a declaration of the Chancellor of the Exsort of understanding appeared to prevail chequer, that it would require four years. between the Chancellor of the Exchequer to wind up our expenses; for the advances and his right hon. friend near him (Mr. of the Bank to Government in the purHuskisson), that the one should not say a chase of Exchequer-bills, &c. with the word about the state of our currency, and usual leger-de-main, would be demanded, that the other should not touch upon the at least for that period. Of the details of sinking fund. Upon that understanding, these transactions the House had received however, he should not dwell, but advert an ample and able detail from an hon. to the question before the House. His gentleman (Mr. F. Lewis); and from these motive for supporting an inquiry was, he details it was evident, that to all intents declared, with a view to ascertain the state and purposes, the Bank had become the of things in which it was contemplated master of the minister. This assertion he that the Bank was likely to resume pay-defied any man to deny; and it imperiously ments in cash, or the grounds upon which called for the interposition of parliament, the Chancellor of the Exchequer calcu- because such a state of things was incon sistent with the public interest, and furnished the strongest reason for restoring our currency to its natural state. Of this he was the more persuaded, because he had no doubt that the facility with which the minister could obtain advances from the Bank, served to encourage a much greater degree of expense than would otherwise take place. Indeed, if it were not for such advances, he was convinced that the minister would be obliged to resort to that House with such a frightful picture of our finances as the country had never witnessed, and such as he believed very few imagined to exist. But such advances would not have been made, if they were not attended with profit to the lenders; and he apprehended that the worthy directors would, upon inquiry, be found to derive a degree of profit from these transactions that was materially injurious to the public service. He was therefore anxious for inquiry, in the hope of preventing the continuance of such an evil, and also with a view to ascertain the state of the Bank, which had never yet been made known; for it was notorious, that upon the inquiry which took place seventeen years ago, the proportion of cash possessed by the Bank, compared to the notes it had in circulation, was never ascertained. The grounds upon which the restriction was enacted were well known; but the point which he had stated was totally unknown, not only at the time that the restriction was enacted, but even at this day. The House had, in fact, no notion of the circumstances under which that great public, and universally admitted evil, the restriction, would be removed. In 1811 it was proposed to remove the restriction in two years, but that proposition was negatived. It was not, however, too much to expect that the Bank should transact business as it would have done had no restriction taken place; but even this reasonable requisition was resisted, especially by the Bank directors, who truly professed so much desire to be relieved from the restriction. It appeared to him the paramount duty of the House to ask the reason of such conduct, and to institute an inquiry, with a view to regulate the future conduct of the Bank, if it were not found expedient to remove the restriction. He had said, that the Bank was the master of the minister, and its partialities were notorious; for although the directors refused to lord Henry Petty an advance of three millions without interest, they readily complied with a similar request from his successor, thus evincing their disposition towards a certain set of ministers. But the fact was, that these directors were become so powerful under the existing system, that they were enabled to overturn any ministers whom the Regent might appoint, and towards whom they felt hostility. The existence of such an extraordinary power he conceived dangerous to the constitution, and therefore he deprecated its existence. The right hon. gentleman concluded with forcibly exhorting the House to appoint a committee, in order to consider the. means of putting an end to such an unnatural state of things. Mr. Huskisson declared his adherence to the opinions which he had expressed on a former occasion, with regard to the theory of money, and the depreciation of our currency: but as to the practical question before the House, it appeared to be simply this, Whether the restriction should be continued for fifteen months? which he could not by any means deem an unreasonable proposition. It would be recollected, that in 1811 it was not thought practicable to put an end to the restriction within less than two years, and he could not therefore consider the present mea. sure as improper, especially after a fair view of the state of the country, and after the declaration which the House had beard from his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. When a responsible minister of the Crown stated his sanguine expectation, that within the period mentioned in the Bill it would not be inconvenient for the Bank to resume its cash payments, he could not help thinking that statement entitled to attention, and that it served to render the proposed committee unnecessary. Indeed, he should oppose such a committee, because he thought its appointment would serve to impede the object for which that statement encouraged us to hope. For himself, he declared, that bearing this statement in mind, and considering the improved prospects of the country, with the reduced price of bullion, he could not see why the restoration of our natural currency should not be looked for as an event likely to take place, much sooner than the right hon. gentleman who spoke last professed to contemplate. With regard to a vote which he had formerly given, in 1811, for the resumption of cash payments in two years, he would not disguise the satisfaction he now felt, that that vote was over-ruled by the House; because if it had not, it would have been impossible for this country to have made those great efforts which had happily produced such glorious results. Nor was there any inconsistency between his past and present conduct; for no human foresight could, by any possibility, have anticipated those results. Had the struggle been of longer continuance, greater and more serious difficulties must have followed, from protracting the restriction to an indefinite period, than he was willing to state. With regard to what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman who spoke last, in his attack upon the Bank, for acting in its dealings with Government from motives of partiality and preference, he considered him to have totally failed in making out his case. It had been argued by another hon. member, that upon any future war, they were to expect a renewal of the restrictions; but he, for one, should deprecate any such measure; for, in his opinion, nothing but such a war, and such a singular concurrence of circumstances as produced the restriction of 1797, could warrant the Bank in applying for, or the Government in consenting to, a renewal of that restriction. There was no safety for the public credit of the country, but in the resumption and continuance of cash payments. With regard to the motion for an inquiry, as no benefit could result from it, he should certainly oppose it. Mr. Baring, in rising to deliver his opinion upon the question, was anxious to guard himself from being considered as delivering the collective opinion of those who were in the direction of the Bank. What he had to offer would certainly be his own individual opinion, because he had not sat in the court of directors for the last twelve months; and if he had, it was not likely that he, or any other person, would be deputed to convey their collective sentiments. He was anxious, however, to defend the Bank from some charges which had been made against it; and first, as to the charge of partiality in its transactions with Government. The Bauk certainly had, under peculiar circumstances, declined advancing the loan to lord Henry Petty, which, under other circumstances, they had advanced to his successor; but in so doing it had acted upon the principle of a fair defence of its own interests, and from no motives of political partiality. Neither was it the fact, ་ as had been stated, that the Bank was anxious to enlarge its discounts, and invited bankers to become discounters. On the contrary, the general practice of the Bank, instead of inviting, was to ward off too much facility in discounting. Then, as to the general charge, that the Bank looked exclusively to its own interests:-It was certainly the duty of the directors to watch over the interests of the proprietors; but he, for one, and he believed he could say as much for his brethren in the direction, would never act with a total disregard of the public interests, as necessarily affected by the state of the currency. In fact, those who conducted the affairs of the Bank would essentially injure their own interests if they acted, otherwise. The right hon. gentleman who spoke last had expressed his confidence, that his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in fixing a definite period when the cash payments would be resumed, had determined upon that period from some communication with the governor or directors of the Bank. He (Mr. Baring) certainly could not know what communication might have passed between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Bank; but he was quite sure there was no information which a director, merely as a director, could give, which might not be obtained from many other individuals. If he, for example, were asked by the right hon. gentleman, at what period it was probable cash payments might be resumed, he should certainly, like a Quaker, answer the question by another question, and inquire in return what foreign payments the right hon. gentleman had yet to make, or engagements to fulfil? Upon the matter itself, he much doubted whether the right hon. gentleman had any authority from the Bank in what he had stated, [Hear, hear!] though certainly he was not aware that he had not. A right hon. friend of his (Mr. Tierney) had expressed a wish to hear the opinions of some of the Bank directors; and he assuredly had no objection to state his own, guarding himself as before, that in what he said he delivered only his own opinion. He firmly believed, that there was no more chance of resuming the cash payments in July twelvemonth, than there was of resuming them to-morrow. [Hear, hear !] He would briefly state the grounds of that opinion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had argued, from the vast foreign expenditure which this country | anxiety for any man's opinion upon a had sustained, that there was a great subject, than he did for his opinion on that capacity for it, which when that expen- now before the House, as he conceived diture ceased, would be applicable to the that he must be better informed upon it resumption of cash payments. The theory than any other person. He wished to was certainly plausible; but the right know how it had happened, that since our hon. gentleman seemed to forget, that expenditure abroad had in a great degree when the country possessed that capacity, ceased, gold, which, during the remission it also possessed the monopoly of nearly of money to the continent, had fallen to all the trade of the world; whereas now 41. 5s. had risen to 41. 9s. It was in vain every country was carrying on its own to say, that the Bank directors did not trade. It always appeared to him, that make money by their advances and issues: the great effort for restoring the currency it was not only their object, but their duty: should be made immediately after peace, they were the trustees of the corporation, when our warehouses were full and the and they must do all they could to increase continent quite bare of merchandize. His the profits of the concern. It had been great doubt, however, of being able to said, that to institute the proposed inquiry restore a sound currency, arose from the would have the effect of making it known, artificial state in which we were, and the that the Bank company wanted to buy impossibility of going on without an arti- gold, and the consequence would be, that ficial currency to meet that state. If the every one who had it to sell would raise high prices and high taxes continued, those his price. He was of opinion that in this high prices and high taxes could never be respect the inquiry could make no differpaid in guineas, but must be paid in paper. ence, as five pounds worth of gold could The only evil of Bank notes, in his opinion, not at present be purchased for the Bank had been their gradual extension from without its being known who was the puryear to year. At the time of the Restric- chaser. Though the Chancellor of the tion they were not more than eight mil- Exchequer had said he thought cash-paylions, afterwards they got to eleven mil-ments might be resumed on the 5th of July lions; and the general average now existing was between 25 and 27 millions. As long as there was any thing artificial in the country, there must be an artificial currency to compete with it. He was convinced that the right hon. gentleman would be unable to manage his affairs, from the moment the Bank drew in their issues, in order to make up these cash-payments: this would pull a string that would affect every country bank in the kingdom, by necessarily calling on them to take up their notes; and general stagnation and ruin would be the immediate consequence. He should vote against the motion, from the conviction that any inquiry of the nature proposed, would only still further impede the object that was desired, by leading to injurious exposure. Yet he would do every thing in his power to promote return to cash-payments; being convinced that there could be no permanent security for this country till its circulating medium was restored to its original state. He could assure the House, that it had ever been the wish of the Bank to do their duty to the country. Mr. Ponsonby was sorry he did not see the hon. gentleman who presided over the concerns of the Bank, in his place at that moment, as he never looked with more $ next year, one of the Bank directors had given it as his opinion that this could not be done in less than five years. To which of these statements ought the House to pay most attention? He, as every man who heard him must do, wished to see the Bank flourish, and was actuated by no hostility against the company; but still he could never bring himself to say that he thought they were not interested in the continuance of the present fictitious cur rency. The opinions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and a Bank director, which had been expressed in that debate, were, as he had shewn, in direct opposition to each other: he hoped the House would put itself in a situation to form an opinion of its own. Feeling, as he did, that the financial and commercial state of the country would never be healthy until the return of a legitimate metallic currency, he must support the motion of his noble friend; the tendency of which, he trusted, would be to incite the Bank to every possible exertion for the acceleration of that desirable object. Mr. J. H. Smyth supported the motion; contending, that the sanguine hope expressed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was an insufficient reason for refusing to refer the subject to a committee. Mr. William Smith also supported the motion. He contended, that the silence of the governor of the Bank afforded ample proof that he did not coincide in the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to the probability of a speedy resumption of payments in specie. In his opinion, all the governments which had succeeded each other in this country had neglected their duty in not imposing a restriction on the profits of the Bank of England. Those profits had been immense, in consequence of the restriction, and it was impossible not to believe that the long continuance of the restriction was in some measure attributable to the advantages derived from it. He recollected that on the morning when the payments in cash had ceased at the Bank, he called on Mr. Fox, to acquaint him with the circumstance. Mr. Fox was already apprised of it. "There is one comfort, however," said he (Mr Smith)," it cannot last long." "Not last long!" replied Mr. Fox, I do not know what you may do; but I shall never live to see the Bank pay in money again." That great man's prophecy had been fulfilled in his case, and he feared it might with truth have been extended to his own. It appeared to him, that without a committee to investigate the subject, and lay down some principles on which the House might hereafter act, the object which they had in view could never be accomplished, and he should therefore vote for the motion. Mr. B. Shaw contended, that although the Bank had benefited by the restriction, they had materially benefited the country in return; and had enabled it to wade through its difficulties, at a period of great danger and distress. What was called an artificial currency, had become so much a part of our financial and commercial constitution, that it was impossible to think of putting a sudden stop to it. The change, to be unattended with mischief, must be one of a gradual nature. The Chancellor of the Exchequer begged the indulgence of the House for a few minutes. He denied that the restriction on the Bank had been imposed as the means of giving energy to the country. No ministry could ever be so mad or presumptuous as to propose it on such a ground. It took place under circumstances which it was to be hoped would never recur. Between the period at which it occurred and the present there was certainly a glorious contrast. At the (VOL. XXIX.) former, revolutionary France threatened. to overwhelm the world, our allies had been subdued, our finances were in a state the most precarious. Now, we had seen our allies victorious, we had seen the French revolution terminated, and a truly free and happy constitution established in France; we had seen a peace concluded which he trusted would prove as permanent as profound. He justified the silence of his hon. friend the governor of the Bank, and expressed a hope that the predictions which had been hazarded that night would not be fulfilled; a hope founded on the recollection of those by which they had been preceded. The fears expressed on account of the high price of labour, and the assertion that the ruin of our manufactures must follow, were bugbears which had been used to frighten the people of this country, not merely from year to year, but from generation to generation. To be satisfied of this, gentlemen need only refer to what had been written on this subject at the beginning of the last century, and they would find these topics had been quite as eloquently pressed on the consideration of the public then, as they were now in our day. Referring to the apprehension expressed by an hon. gentleman, that he should not see the Bank resume its payments in cash, he stated it to be his hope, that he would live many years after the restriction had ceased; and he did not hesitate to repeat it as his sanguine belief, that that event would take place at the period which he proposed to name in the committee, when the present motion was disposed of. Mr. Grenfell said, he intended to vote for the motion; and if the inquiry proposed were not granted, when the Bill came into the committee, he would move to add to the clause for limiting the Bank restrictions to July, 1816, the words which were used with respect to the property tax," and no longer." Lord A. Hamilton replied at some length, after which strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the gallery was cleared. Mr. Ponsonby, whilst in the lobby, addressed the members who had gone forth. He requested them not to retire when the division was over, as Mr. Grenfell proposed to add as an amendment to the clause limiting the Bank restriction to July, 1816, the words " and no longer." These words were well thought of, and when these were pressed on the House, it would be seen what confidence the Chan(4 H) |