gestion of the worthy alderman was entitled to great attention. He had already expressed his own opinion, which remained unchanged, although he was willing to bow to the superior judgment of the House. But he could not avoid saying, that, in his opinion, a bounty on the importation of corn, when the price was high, would be by far a more preferable measure, than the one embraced by the Bill.

Mr. Alderman C. Smith denied the truth of the assertion made by an hon. gentleman, that in mercantile towns the general opinion was favourable to the proposed alteration.

much less that they would attempt to hurry the Bill through the House. Finding, however, that they had been mistaken on that head, he might rely on it, there would be one or more petitions from that great manufacturing city, fully expressing their opinions against any such measure being adopted at present; and they had no doubt, but they should be joined by every manufacturing town and city in the country. For his own part, he should be glad to know whether this measure really emanated from his Majesty's ministers as composing the government of the country, or whether it was the measure General Gascoyne contended, that, as only of a single individual of their body. the measure stood, there was but one opi- This question, if viewed in its proper light, nion upon the subject, and that was an should be taken as a matter of private adverse one. No petition had been put business, like an inclosure bill, a canal into his hands by his constituents, because, bill, &c.; and in every such matter of aware of the general hostility towards the meum and tuum, ministers had in general proposed alteration, and of the conciliatory thought it proper to withdraw themselves disposition of his Majesty's government, -to stand aloof, and to leave the parties they did not conceive that such a petition concerned in the premises to contend the could be requisite. In a short time, how-matter among themselves. But, in the ever, petitions would be poured in, not only from Lancashire, but from all parts of the kingdom, against the Bill. Although he would not take the sense of the House upon the present motion, he pledged himself to let no other stage of the measure pass without doing so.

Mr. Finlay thought that if the protect ing price were 75s. or 76s. it would meet with the approbation of the manufacturing and commercial interests.

Mr. Baring said, it was pretty well known to ministers that a strong feeling against this measure existed in the country. In some parts of Lancashire it appeared rising to an alarming height. The general irritation would not be allayed by hurry. ing the measure through the House. He thought it would be but decent to give time for petitions to be presented for and against it. This was a sufficient argument for not proceeding to the second reading on Friday. He therefore moved, as an amendment, that the Bill should be read a second time on Friday se'nnight.

Mr. Peter Moore said, he had that very day received a letter from his constituents at Coventry, in which they stated, that after the very numerous petitions poured into the House against this measure in the course of the last session, they could not, but with difficulty, bring themselves tobelieve, that the same House of Commons would seriously attempt to bring forward the same measure at the present period, (VOL. XXIX.)

present instance, government had interfered with their overwhelming interest, and had joined the landholders with all their might, to enable them to carry a measure, which, if so carried, was neither more nor less than levying an extraordinary tax on the major part of the community. This was, in his opinion, highly unconstitutional, and contrary to the practice of the House; for it was taxing one. set of his Majesty's subjects, for the benefit of another set, instead of the good old principle, that all should be taxed alike, allowing for their different gradations in society. If we must be taxed to the amount of forty millions, let it be done equally, in a fair, open, and bold manner; but do not let particular classes be penned up like sheep in a fold, to be fattened, or leaned, or starved, according to the will and pleasure of ministers and their adherents.

Sir John Sebright observed, that if he thought the effect of the present measure would be to raise the price of bread, he would not support it. It was impossible that the agricultural interest could be so stupidly ignorant as not to perceive that their good was intimately connected with our commercial prosperity. The object the landed proprietor must have in view was the general prosperity of the country; and short-sighted, indeed, would that policy be, which was calculated to depress any class of the community. Instead of (4 C)

consumer.

Mr. Grenfell thought that this measure would not have the effect of rendering the people dependent on the land-owners for their food, as was contended by the hon. member for Coventry; but that it would have the effect of making them in dependent of all foreign supply.

Mr. Marryatt rose to express the satisfaction he should feel, if any proposition for adopting a medium price between 72s. and 80s. should be made by the noble lord who had alluded to this subject (lord Lascelles), or some other great landed proprietor. Such a proposition would come with a better grace from one of the landed proprietors, than from any person connected with commerce or manufactures. They had already sufficiently proved their power in the House, and he hoped they would now also shew their moderation. Unless some measure of this kind were to be brought forward, he would support the amendment.

this measure raising the price of bread | ther delay. He wished to say one word from 1s. 3d. to 1s. 6d., he was convinced as to the petitions which had been laid the higher the protecting price was, the before them. No man could pay greater lower would the average price be to the deference to the opinions of the people than himself, and no man was in general more disinclined to take a part contrary to their wishes: but he conceived the way in which these petitions ought to be interpreted was this: the House were called on in them to decide according to the best of their own judgments; for if any other consequence was to be given to these petitions, he knew not what the House were delegated there to do. With the utmost tenderness for the feelings of the people on every subject which deeply agitated them, he was sure there was no question in which they could form less accurate opinions than on that at present before the House. It had been said, that this was a question between the landed interest and manufacturers. If there was a person in the House who could view the question in that light, he would take it upon him to say, that he was not only one of the most perverse, mischievous, and unfeeling, but also one of the most igr brant of mankind. [Hear, bear!] The interests of the two classes could not possibly be separated, for they could not go on without the assistance of each other. He believed that every man had already made up his mind one way or another on the subject, and he did not suppose there were one half dozen members whose opinions would be altered. The sooner the ques sion was set at rest the better; and the people would ere long be convinced, that the government which had proposed, and the persons who had supported this measure, had done their duty to them by attending to their true interests.

On the Speaker's ordering strangers to withdraw, previous to a division, there appeared a disinclination on the part of several members to divide.

Mr. C. Calvert declared, that those he represented were unanimously against the measure, and stated it to be his determination to take the sense of the House on the question now under consideration.

Sir Gilbert Heathcote said, he had never yet taken any part in this question; but having come to the House on another business, he was forced to take some part now. He could not help thinking that a delay of one week could not affect the question, and might be of great benefit. He had not yet formed an opinion on it one way or another, but possibly by Friday se'nnight he should be able to make up his mind.

Mr. J. P. Grant said, if he thought that any considerable number of persons, from the attention which they might give to this question in the course of another week, would be enabled to form more mature opinions respecting it than they could 'at present do, he should have no difficulty in voting for the amendment; but, believ ing that the subject had been already ably, amply, and extensively discussed, and knowing that it had also been agitated last year, he could see no utility for any fur

Mr. Alderman C. Smith supported the amendment.

Mr. Alderman Atkins conceived that the House could not come to a decision on this question before knowing the most correct principles on which the averages might be ascertained. He hoped, therefore, the measure would not be hurried through the House.

Sir J. Newport was against any further delay, as the general sense of the House had been fully expressed upon the principle of the Bill.

Mr. Calcraft said, an hon. and learned gentleman had asserted that this question had already been most ably, amply, and extensively discussed, and that there were not half a dozen members whose opinions

The House divided:

For the Amendment
Against it............
Majority

List of the Minority.

Atkins, J.
Baring, A.
Bakington, T.
Butterworth, J.
Barclay, Charles
Bolland, Mr.
Calcraft, J.
Davis, H.
Forbes, C.
Fremantle, W. H.
Gascoyne, gen.
Guise, sir W.
Gaskill, B.
Howorth, H.

would be changed. This was a pretty
stout assertion. In the divisions that had
already taken place, not one half of the
representatives of the people had yet
voted on the question; and he would
take upon him to say, that many members
who had attended had not yet voted, from
which it was reasonable to infer that they
had not yet made up their minds. But
this, surely, was a strange argument to be
made use of in that House. When fight-
ing the battles of the constitution and the
people, with his hon. and right hon.
friends around him, it was never argued,
when there was a majority on any mea-
sure affecting the interests of the commu-
nity, that that was a reason why no far-
ther time should be given for its conside-
ration. He lamented that the hon. gen-Heathcote, sir G.
tlemen, on whose bench he so seldom Horner, F.
appeared, but with whom he had for- Keene, W.
merly had the honour and the happiness
to vote, were so changed as they now ap-
peared to be. A something seemed to
have come over them, and to have ob-
scured their sight on this occasion, for
which he could not account, but which
he could not but deeply regret, as it pre-
cluded him from acting with them. He
strenuously opposed the Bill, and urged
the propriety of the amendment.

Mr. Whitbread remarked, that though he was inclined to support the amendment, he must make an observation on the speech of his hon. friend who had just sat down. That hon. gentleman had thought proper to attack the whole bench of opposition, whom he professed his intention of leaving, at the same moment that he gave them credit for the best motives and the most liberal opinions. He could only say, that whenever the hon. gentleman might choose to return amongst them, they would be very happy to receive him; and, in the mean time, he hoped that in all his attacks upon them, he would be as ready to eulogize their principles as he had that night shewn himself, at the moment of abandoning their connexion. As to the question be fore the House, he thought it advisable not to make a show of precipitation, where no precipitation could be intended. There was no occasion for any hurry; and therefore, though he must allow that to him it did not appear that fixing Friday next was any extraordinary urgency of the business, yet he conceived that a delay could not but be useful where dispatch might be liable to misinterpretation.

30

..... 109 <-79

The Bill was accordingly ordered to be read a second time on Friday.

MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS RESPECTING CERTAIN SPANISH SUBJECTS SENT FROM GIBRALTAR TO CADIZ.] Mr. Whitbread rose for the purpose of calling the attention of the House to the conduct of general Smith and sir James Duff, and of submitting a motion upon the subject to the House, pursuant to his notice. He commenced by observing, that whatever good or evil might arise from the discussion, it must be attributed to the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose recommendation had induced him to submit his opinions in the form of a distinct motion. It had originated in various questions he had felt it his duty to put to ministers regarding the instrumentality of certain agents of this government at Cadiz and Gibraltar, in forwarding the designs of the infernal Inquisition, now re-established in Spain. In order to explain, palliate, or justify the conduct of general Smith and sir James Duff, certain documents had been laid upon the table, in opposition to which a statement had been published in one of the public journals, which denied many material particulars. He had required of ministers an explanation or reconcilement of these discordances, when the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had declared, that he much doubted whether earl Bathurst, in whose department the subject lay, was bound in duty to require from general Smith, the governor of Gibraltar, and from sir James Duff, our consul at Cadiz,