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D, p. iv.

WILLIAM DUER TO JAMES MADISON.

DEAR SIR,

New-York, June 23d, 1788.

As it is probable you may not hear by this post from our mutual friend Colonel Hamilton, I take the liberty of giving you a short sketch of our political prospects in this quarter on the great question of the Constitution. My information is from Colonel Lawrence, who left Poughkeepsie on Saturday.

A considerable majority of the Convention are undoubtedly Anti-Federal; or, in other words, wish for amend ments previous to the adoption of the government. A few of the leaders (among which I think I may, without scruple, class the governor) would, if they could find support, go farther, and hazard everything rather than agree to any system which tended to a consolidation of our government. Of this, however, I have at present no apprehensions, many of their party having avowed themselves friends to the Union. With respect to amendments, as far as I can understand the party in opposition, they cannot agree among themselves. It is therefore possible that this circumstance may create a division in favour of the Federalists. As to the rejection of the Constitution, there is not the least probability of it. The great points of discussion will probably be, whether they will adjourn without coming to any decision, or whether they will adopt it conditionally, or follow the example of Massachusetts and South Carolina.

The conduct of your Convention will influence, in a great degree, ours. If you adjourn without doing anything, we shall do the same; but, if you do not, there is still some hope that we may adopt, with proposed amendments: for, as to the second point, the inconsistency of it will, I think, be too apparent after a decision to command a majority. While I am writing, a gentleman has favoured me with a copy of a letter from an intelligent by-stander,* who has attended the debates of the Convention; I therefore enclose it, as a more faithful history than I can give.

I am, with sentiments of the most profound esteem,
Your obedient, humble servant,
WILLIAM DUER.

James Kent, then a student at law with Mr. E. Benson.

DEAR SIR,

JAMES KENT TO ROBERT TROUP.

Poughkeepsie, Friday, June 20th, 1788.

I had the pleasure of receiving your letter by Mr. Harrison, and in compliance with your desire, I shall shortly state to you the proceedings of the Convention hitherto.

He

They met on Tuesday in pretty full house, and elected Governor Clinton president, and appointed by ballot Duane, Morris, Lansing, Jones, and Hening, a committee for reporting rules for the regulation of the Convention. On Wednesday, the rules were adopted, the Constitution read, and a motion made by Mr. Lansing, and agreed to, that they would on the next day resolve themselves into a committee of the whole, for the purpose of discussing the Constitution. On Thursday, which was yesterday, the house resolved itself into a committee, Mr. Couthout, of Albany, chairman. Chancellor Livingston rose and called our attention to a fine introductory speech of one hour's length. He mentioned the importance of the occasion, and the peculiar felicity of this country, which had it in its power to originate and establish its government from reason and choice, while on the Eastern Continent, their governments and the reforms of them were the children of force. then pointed out the necessity of Union, particularly in this state, from its local situation, which rendered it peculiarly vulnerable, not only to foreigners, but to its neighbours. He stated that a Union was to be expected only from the old Confederation, or from the government now under their consideration. He then demonstrated the radical defects of the Confederation; that its principle was bad, in legislating for states in their political capacity, as its constitutional demands could only be coerced by arms; that it was equally defective in form, as the Congress was a single body, too small and too liable to faction, from its being a single body, to be intrusted with legislative power, and too numerous to be intrusted with executive authority. The chancellor, on this head, only gave a summary of the arguments of Publius* when treating on the defects of the Confederation; but the summary was neither so perfect nor so instructive, by a vast difference, as the original. It was not, however, -to be expected in a short address. He concluded that survey by entreating the house to divest themselves of preju

*The signature adopted by the authors of "The Federalist."

fice and warmth, to examine the plan submitted with the utmost coolness and candour, to consider themselves as citizens assembled to consult for the general good, and not as state officers, who might be opposed, in that capacity, to every determination of their authority. He concluded his speech by a motion which, with some amendments, was agreed to by the house, that they would discuss the Constitution by paragraphs, and any amendments which might be proposed in the course of the debate, without taking the question as to any paragraphs, or as to any amendments which might be offered, until the whole Constitution was discussed. This, sir, is a sketch of the proceedings of the Convention to this day. We expect they will this morning enter on the subject by paragraphs. I imagine they will be some time engaged in the discussion, probably three weeks. As to the result, I can only say I look forward to it with anxious uncertainty. I do not abandon hope. I think the opposition discover great embarrassment. I believe they

do not know what to do. Some of them, I am told, have said they will not vote against it. The decision in NewHampshire and Virginia, we are flattering ourselves, will be favourable; and that they will give energy to the debate on one side in our Convention, and confusion, if not absolute despair, to the other side. I hope you and our friends in New-York will give us the earliest information from those

states.

In giving you the heads of the chancellor's speech, I believe I am not mistaken. He spoke rather low, and there was so much noise, and the bar so much crowded, that I confess I lost at least one third of the speech, though I trust not the general course of reasoning. What I regretted more, I lost some of his figures, for which he is peculiarly eminent. I shall take the liberty to trespass on your patience by every opportunity, as I trust your curiosity will excuse me. I am, &c., &c.

JAMES KENT.

P.S. I am directed by Mr. Benson to request you will communicate this information to Colonel Duer.

WILLIAM DUER TO JAMES MADISON.

MY DEAR SIR,

1788.

Our mutual friend, Hamilton, has communicated to me, in confidence, the substance of your letter on the political pros

FF

pects in Pennsylvania and Virginia. I learn with extreme regret the division of the Federalists in the former state, and the malignant perseverance of the opponents to the Constitution in your own. I trust, however, that we shall have the benefit of your councils and exertions in the House of Representatives, notwithstanding Mr. Henry's manœuvres to prevent it.

You may remember some conversation I once had with you on the subject of electing Mr. John Adams as Vicepresident. I have ascertained, through General Knox, that this gentleman, if chosen, will be a strenuous opposer against calling a Convention, which, in the present state of parties, I consider as a vital stab to the Constitution; and not only that, I have been informed, in a mode perfectly satisfactory, that he and his old coadjutor, R. H. Lee, will be altogether opposite in all measures relative to the establishment of the character and credit of the government. I am therefore anxious that the Federalists to the southward may join in supporting his nomination. A greater knowledge of the world has cured him of his old party prejudices, and I am satisfied nothing is to be feared from that quarter; on the contrary, should he be elected to that station (which I am fully convinced is his wish), the weight of his state would be cast into the Federal scale.

Interested as I know you are in the welfare of the Union, I cannot omit giving you this information, on the authenticity of which you may rely, that you may (without committing my name) make such use of it as you think proper. I am, with sentiments of great esteem,

Your obedient, humble servant,
WILLIAM Duer.

P.S. I have no objection to Messrs. Robert and Gouv erneur Morris seeing this letter.

JAMES MADISON TO WILLIAM A. DUER.

DEAR SIR,

Montpelier, May 5th, 1835.

I have received your letter of April 25th, and, with the aid of a friend, an amanuensis, have made out the following an

swer.

On the subject of Mr. Pinckney's proposed plan of a Constitution, it is to be observed, that the plan printed in the Journal was not the document actually presented by him to

In

the Convention. That document was in no otherwise noticed in the proceedings of the Convention than by a reference of it, with Mr. Randolph's plan, to a committee of the whole, and afterward to a committee of detail, with others; and not being found among the papers left with President Washington, and finally deposited in the Department of State, Mr. Adams, charged with the publication of them, obtained from Mr. Pinckney the document in the printed journal as a copy supplying the place of the missing one. this there must be error; there being sufficient evidence, even on the surface of the journals, that the copy sent to Mr. Adams could not be the same with the document laid before the Convention. Take, for example, the article constituting the House of Representatives-the corner-stone of the fabric; the identity, even verbal, of which, with the adopted Constitution, has attracted so much notice. In the first place, the detail and phraseology of the Constitution appears to have been the result of successive discussions, and are too minute and exact to have been anticipated. In the next place, it appears that, within a few days after Mr. Pinckney presented his plan to the Convention, he moved to strike out from the resolution of Mr. Randolph the provision for the election of the House of Representatives by the people, and refer the choice of that house to the legislatures of the states; and to this preference he appears to have adhered in the subsequent proceedings of the Convention. Other discrepancies might be found, in a source also within your reach, in a pamphlet published by Mr. Pinckney soon after the close of the Convention, in which he refers to parts of his plan which are at variance with the document in the printed journal.* Farther evidence on this subject await a future, perhaps a posthumous disclosure. One conjecture explaining the phenomena has been, that Mr. Pinckney interwove with the draught sent to Mr. Adams passages as agreed on in the Convention in the progress of the work, and which, after a lapse of more than thirty years, were not separated by his recollection.

The resolutions of Mr. Randolph, the basis on which the deliberations of the committee proceeded, were the result of a consultation among the Virginia deputies, who thought

* Observations on the Plan of Government submitted to the Federal Convention, on the 28th of May, 1787, by Charles Pinckney, &c., &c. Vide "Select Facts," vol. ii., in the library of the Historical Society of NewYork.

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