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terpreter in Italian, and afterwards in Eng- Did you not tell him that the persons lish. It gave the witness “ a most excel who had given you the Napoleons had lent character for assiduity, zeal, and fide- given you more than you asked to pay lity," and stated that he was only dis- your expenses ?-I cannot say so: I askcharged from motives of economy, and for ed only for money to pay my journey. the sake of retaining older servants. It Will
you swear that you did not tell was signed “Caroline P.”
Cavazzi that they had given you more Renewed cross-examination of Theo than you asked -I cannot swear any DORE MAJocci by Mr BROUGHAM.-Do such thing, because I asked only the exyou know Julius Cæsar Cavazzi ?-I ne- penses of my voyage ; and he could not ver heard of that name.
say so. Do you know a person named Cavazzi ? Will you swear that you did not tell -Yes; an Italian. I have heard of a him, that whatever you asked for, you person of the name of Cavazzi at Milan: got more than you asked ?-1 cannot there are two; one is a jeweller, and has swear that I asked for more, nor can he a shop in one of the suburbs of Milan; swear that I asked for more, than my exI believe he lives there, but I never was penses. I have sworn to this already, in his shop; he is a fat man.
and I cannot say any thing else if I should The Cavazzi I am speaking of is a per- be asked a hundred times. son who lives in Greville-street, Hatton- Will you swear that you did not say garden, or who did lately live there ?-I that you had got more than you asked? remember that this Cavazzi told me that I never said I had got more than my he was a relation of the Cavazzi at Milan; expences. for when I came here I met him, and he Do you know Joseph Bizzetti?-1 do told me that he was so.
not know that name. Well, then, it is this one, and not the I mean a person who lives in Liquorother, who you said before was the only pond-street-Liquorpond-street ? Non one you had ever heard of ?-I have mi ricordo : I do not remember. I came known him only a few days in London. here in a sack, and I went away in a
Did not you and this London Cavazzi trunk, (laughter) and I do not know Eng. dine with each other last winter, for eight lisb. or ten days together? -Not for eight or But when you forgot every thing about ten days, because I was not here eight or Cavazzi, you recollected him as soon as I ten days.
told you the street in which he lived ?But did you not dine once or twice to. I remembered him, because I recollected gether ? - What I can say is, that I dined the name of Cavazzi, but not because I twice with him, and ate rice.
was told of the garden. Did you not chew Cavazzi another let- You must try to recollect Bizzetti, too, ter, which you told him you had received before we part. Do you remember two from somebody here to carry abroad ?- Italians who dined with you at the same What I remember is, that I was shewing place where Cavazzi also dined with you ? him the dispatch I was to carry.
-There were many Italians who came Was it not a dispatch which you were there and dined and ate rice. to carry to Lord Stewart ? --It was. Do you not know an Italian who accom
Did you not also shew him a number panied you up and down London, to shew of Napoleons, which you said you had re- you your way, and explain things to you? ceived at the same time with the letter? I remember a person who served as a -Yes; they were the Napoleons for my guide. journey; I counted them there.
What was his name?--I never asked How many did you shew him ?-I be- what name he went by. lieve cighty.
Do you not know that he was a cabinetWill you swear that you did not shew maker?--I was told that he was such ; him 150?-I cannot swear how many: that he was a joiner. what I remember is, I counted eighty; Do you recollect going with him, either but I cannot swear.
on the day or the day after the late king's funeral, to the west end of the town? - found him waiting for me when I came He carried me about, and brought me out. here and there, and told me that this Upon any one of those occasions did place is such a place, and that place is such you come out with a gentleman whom another place, but I did not know where you had found in the great house ?we went, and whether this was this, and Yes, I did. that was that.
Did you go from thence, with that genDid you go with that young man to tleman, to his chambers ? —No. any particular house ?- I remember we Did you not go with him somewhere? came into some street, where some gentle- -With that gentleman I went nowhere. men lived whom I don't know, and to Who was this gentleman whom you whose house I was to carry a letter. His came out with ? - What I remember is, servant told me that he was not at home, that he was a Mr Powell. because he had gone out to see the cere- Will you swear that you did not go mony of the funeral of the king.
with Mr Powell, when you came out, to On that, or on the other day, or either his chambers in Lincoln’s-inn ?-With of them, did you go with that young Mr Powell I did not go. man, and to find any person in a very Did not you, then, at that time make large house?-How am I to know whe- an appointment to go at six o'clock to Mr ther it was a large or small (house)? I did Powell's chambers?—I did. not make the observation; I cannot say Did you not go that evening, accordwhether it was large or small.
ing to that appointment?-I did. Did you, upon any of those occasions Now, as to the great house, I underwhen you were so accompanied by the la- stand you to say that you went several quais de place, go into any large house times afterwards,-frequently, in short, where there was a sentinel standing at the to it, with your laquais de place ? - Yes. door ?—That was on the first day of my Did you not on one of those occasions arrival in England, when I was told that go from Mr Powell's to that great house, that was the house where was the court of with a note ?-I did. the King ; for I had three or four letters. Did you go in on that occasion to the
Did you ever go to that house again ? - house, and leave your laquais de place outYes; I went and returned through a side at the door? - I believe I have left door to and from the house.
him out of doors; but I cannot be sure Do you mean several times to and from of it. this house - I do.
Now, this great house, was it CarltonDid you go into the house and leave house? --The name of Carlton I have not your laquais de place at the gate or door heard ; it was said to be the palace of the the while ? --The first time I left him out King. at the door.
Were there any pillars before the door? Did you not leave him at that door, at I know that the people enter by a small the other times also, when he accompa- door ; and as soon as they get in, there nied you to this house ? - What I remem- is another door before them. ber is, that while I was in the house with Did you see any pillars about the some one, I have left the laquais de place house?
--I have seen some ancient Great the door.
cian columns; they were inside. Do you mean to say, that, at the other After you enter through the outer gate, times you were there, your laquais de is there a court between the house and place was not at the door?-Whether he the street ? --There is a court between came in, or not, I cannot tell ; I left him the house and the street. there, and I don't think he stopped; where Have you had any conversation with he went afterwards, I cannot tell. Mr Powell about your expenses, and the
Did you find him waiting there for you payment of them, in the presence of your when you came out of the house upon laquais de place ?-Questo non mi ricordo. this occasion ?-I have not mentioned Did Mr Powell say to you, in the prethe place; what į remember is, that I sence of this laquais de place, that money was no object, and that you might have Did you account for those Napoleons ? more if you wanted it?-No.
-Yes; I gave an account of the expenWill you swear that? that he did ses of my journey. not say, “money was no object?”—I will Whom did you see at the great house, swear that Mr Powell never said so. on the occasion you have before spoken
Will you also swear that he never, in of ?-I saw a footman, and a German, the presence of that laquais de place, said who talked to me in German. any thing to that purpose or effect?-No; Whom did you see at any other time Mr Powell never talked about this pur- (as you say you were there several times) pose, nor held such discourse.
at the great house ?-I saw a large big Do you mean to represent that you man, rather a handsome man, who did never had any conversation with Mr not understand French or Italian, but Powell upon the subject of the Queen? who spoke with me by signs. -The witness) How, what do you For what purpose did you go to that mean? I don't understand what you say? house ? — The first time I went to carry
The interpreter.—My Lords, if I am to a packet; and then I said I must have a use the word “conversation,” I shall ne- receipt for the packet, for I could not give ver make myself understood.
it without taking a receipt. Mr BROUGHAM. Then pray use ano- Did you bring that packet with you ther word, sir ; " discourse," if you please. when you came over to England with Mr Put the question again in this way:- Hyatt? --I did. Do you mean to say that Mr Powell has I ask the witness to say, as well as he never spoken to you on the subject of the recollects, how many times he has called Queen-Mr Powell spoke to me upon at that house?- What I can remember is, this business at Milan, when I made my that I have been there three times. deposition ; but after that, we have never As he has told us for what he went spoken together any more upon the sub- there the first time, ask him whether he ject.
recollects for what purpose he went the Re-examined.-For what purpose were second time?—The second time I went those Napoleons given you before you to see whether there was any answer to went to Vienna ? — To pay the expenses the packet for which I had asked a reof my journey.
ceipt; and a third time, because they told Were you to account for those Napo- me to call again for an answer, leons? -Si, Signor.
II.-EVIDENCE FOR THE DEFENCE.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Oct. 5.-24.
EARL OF GUILDFORD, [Clerk to Mr Vizard, the Queen's Soli- Does your lordship recollect having citor, was sent to Baden to solicit the at- seen her Majesty the Queen at Naples tendance of Baron Dente, Chamberlain -I recollect coming to Naples after the to the Grand Duke, as a witness. The Queen had arrived there. Baron at first consulted his minutes and At what time was that, does your lordgave his deposition.]
ship recollect ?- I think it was in the beDo you know whether the Grand Duke ginning of March, 1815. was then at Baden ?-Yes, he was. When your lordship arrived at Na
Was the Baron willing to come to this ples, who formed the suite of her Majescountry at the time when you took his ty?-I think there were Lady Charlotte deposition on the 20th ? - Yes, he was. Forbes, Sir William Gell, the Hon. Kep
Did he, when you saw him afterwards, pell Craven, and Dr Holland. These state any reason to you why he could not were all, to the best of my recollection. come? Yes, he said he could not come Does your lordship recollect a person without the consent of the Grand Duke of the name of Bergami being there?
After he returned from the Grand Yes, I recollect seeing that person. Duke, at Carlsruhe, did he make any In what situation was he then, does statement to you?-Yes, he did ; he told your lordship recollect ?--As far as I unme on the 23d, that he had seen the derstood, I think he was called a courier. Grapd Duke on that morning, and that [Lord Guildford dined with the Queen he had refused him permission to come. at Naples, with a large party of English
Did the Chamberlain state any other and foreigners. He saw her again at reason ?-No. I remember him saying Rome, and spent several days in her he enjoyed an estate in Hanover under house at Civita Vecchia. She had then his Majesty, but that should not prevent living with her Madame Falconet, wife his coming over, because he was satisfied to an opulent banker at Naples, with her his Majesty would not think ill of him two daughters.] for coming.
Where did your lordship and Lady Did you make any other application to C. Lindsay disembark?-At Leghorn. him? — Yes ; I wrote to him requesting When did your lordship see her Ma. he would make a deposition before the jesty after that period ?-A long interval local authorities on the spot.
elapsed before I saw the Queen again. What answer did he return ?-He said The next time I met her was, I think, he could not do so without the consent of in November, 1815, at the Villa d'Este, the Grand Duke.
her house near the Lake of Como.
Was your lordship then accompanied COLONEL ANTHONY BULLER St Leger, by Lady Charlotte Lindsay ?-No, I was [Had been the Queen's Chamberlain not. for eleven years, from 1809 downwards, Where was Lady Charlotte then ? but on her Majesty going abroad in 1814, She was in England. his state of health did not allow him to Your lordship has said that you then go farther than Brunswick. On her re- saw the Queen at the Villa d'Este? turn, he waited on her and resigned his Yes, I first saw her Majesty on the office, still on account of health.] lake.
Did you dine at the Villa then ? What were the considerations which Yes, I did.
induced you to give that advice ? Was Bergami then at her Majesty's Mr BROUGHAM here desired to remind table ?-He was.
their Lordships, that this was a question Did your lordship ever before see him addressed to points on which he had been sit at table with her Majesty ?-Never, restrained from entering. I think.
The Lord CHANCELLOR agreed with Did your lordship stay longer than the Learned Counsel, that the examinathat day at the Villa d'Este ? No, I tion was taking an irregular course, and went away the same evening.
it might indeed be advisable to expunge Where did your lordship go?--I slept the preceding question and answer. that night in the little town of Como, [The Attorney-General here put a and went on the next day to Milan. number of questions relative to his lord
Did your lordship see the Queen af- ship’s servant, evidently pointing to some terwards ?-Yes, I saw the Queen on the supposed familiarity between him and Saturday or the Sunday following at Min the Queen ; but Lord G. disowned all lan, where I dined with her by an invi- recollection on the subject.] tation which I received when I was at By Lord Ross.Did you ever see her the Villa d'Este.
Royal Highness in company with any Was it your lordship’s intention when other person in a boat on the Lake of you went to the Villa d'Este to have paid Como I have certainly seen her in a a longer visit?--I had no intention of boat accompanied by another person. staying longer ; I had made no particu- Who was that person ?-I have seen lar arrangement.
her in a boat with Bergami alone. From that time have you had any op- By Earl Grey.-Did your lordship portunity of seeing the Queen ? -No, I notice any particular familiarity passing have not.
between them, when you thus saw her Cross-examined. Did it happen to Royal Highness and Bergami in a boat your lordship to see, while at Naples, at together ?-Certainly, I never observed Rome, or at Civita Vecchia, whether any conduct on that occasion which apBergami waited upon the company at ta- peared to me to be indecorous. ble? - I cannot recollect at Naples whe- Your lordship has already stated that ther he did or not, but I think he did at the Countess Oldi had a little of the Civita Vecchia.
Lombard accent in her pronounciation ; When you visited at the Villa d'Este, was any impression made on your mind what ladies were in attendance ?-_There with regard to her manners, as well as was an Italian lady, whose name I under- with regard to her language - My chief stood to be the Countess Oldi.
impression was, that her manners were Had your lordship any opportunity quite inoffensive. of conversing with that lady? --Yes, í Were they the manners of an appaconversed with her.
rently respectable and modest woman?From your lordship's knowledge of I saw no:hing vulgar or immodest in her the Italian, did she speak what is termed deportment. the Patois, or pure Italian ?-I thought Did you ever remark whether her conshe spoke very good Italian, with rather versation and deportment were such as the accent of Lombardy.
indicated a well-bred woman, or a woHad you ever any conversation with man of inferior station of society ?-I your sister Lady Charlotte Lindsay on never observed any particular vulgathe subject of her remaining in atten- rity. dance on her Royal Highness ?-Yes, I Did you remark any difference between recollect to have liad some correspondence her manners and the manners of other with her on the subject.
Italian ladies ?-I cannot say that I did; Did you recommend to Lady Charlotte there was no observable or material difLindsay the propriety of resigning the ference; I should not perhaps call her a situation which she held about the person person of great refinement, but there was of her Royal Highness P-I did 'advise no part of her conduct that was singular her to resign it.
or easy to be distinguished from the